STI DVC vs CK Arms 9mm Open

[bonglee0507]

In terms of fitting. Sti factory guns RATTLE This is based on actual experience bec i had 2 factory sti's before, apeiro and edge! Ck also offers tin barrels. Im more on how the gun was made than how long the company is

What do you mean buy this? My STI guns don't rattle.

Very loose fit on the slide to frame fit

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[Chutist]

I guess I'm more interested in hearing how CK from a parts and process prospective is "well made"

...than how something else - THAT IS - an industry standard is inferior

"Cutting down others, doesn't make you taller"...

[bonglee0507]

I guess I'm more interested in hearing how CK from a parts and process prospective is "well made"

...than how something else - THAT IS - an industry standard is inferior

"Cutting down others, doesn't make you taller"...

This is a VS thread so cutting down the other is natural. U were asking my opinion and i answered you. Dont make it appear that im putting sti down

Below are some reviews

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=222397&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?/topic/214182-Any-Experience-with-CK-Arms-Thunder-Limited%3F

Edited October 12, 2015 by bonglee0507

[BeerBaron]

Ck is way better than the dvc. Especially in the fitting of the slide to frame and barrel fitting

Based on your examination of how many of each? Define "way better"?

I'm open to CK but how about data?

STI has been around a long time... They are the Standard that everybody is shooting for (pun intended).

The DVC looks to be a better from a value standpoint and it comes with two mags... The wait for delivery doesn't seem to be the issue it was since I see some guns in stock plus

chrome, TiNi barrel , comp grip, trigger job, slide lightening, Dawson tool less guide rod and fibre optic front sight on the DVC.

Don't see all of that on the CK? Good Trigger and some slide cuts... and no mags?

You are kidding right? You don't see 'all of that' on the ck?

Ok tin barrel is an option. That's about $50.

Yea the ck is not hard chrome it's pvd coated either silver (chrome like) or black. That is a much higher end coating than hard chrome. Thinner, stronger, harder wearing and slippery too.

'Comp grip' well they both have a stippled and undercut plastic sti grip.

'Trigger job' the sti has a bunch of cheap mim internals and reports on the trigger could best be described as 'mixed'. The ck has all top shelf EGW internals and the trigger is set by a gunsmith not just assembled on a line.

Tool less guide rod. You've got them there. Ck has a regular 1 piece guide rod. Bummer.

Ck also has a fibre optic front sight

As for the slide to me the DVC looks very cookie cutter and has no real flair to the styling. Just a bunch of oval holes. The ck has nice progressive cuts. But that's really an aesthetic choice. The fact is they both have lightened slides. Some will prefer one style over the other.

So really the dvc has a tooll less guide rod and 2 mags over the ck. the ck has better quality parts, better frame and slide, better finish and is built by a gunsmith, not by 10 different people on a production line. Check out the vid of sti's being fitted with a belt sander!

I'm sure there's some great ones but I've already heard reports of fitting issues and other warranty returns. That's simply because they have a wider tolerance of what they'll pass from a qc perspective. They are built with lower quality parts and assembled on a production line. They are a great gun and well priced but I wouldn't say they are better than a ck nor better value. They are a cheaper gun yes.

Btw I don't quite but into the 'sti's' rattle. I've felt and shot some very nicely fitted sti's. They may be a mass produced, line built gun but they are still a damn good one. I also think the dvc offers some nice features for the money. But if you think every gun they turn out has the same attention to detail and the same level of quality as a custom gun like a ck then I'd have to disagree.

Edited October 12, 2015 by BeerBaron

[dansedgli]

Did you get your ck?

[BeerBaron]

Did you get your ck?

Still playing the waiting game but hopefully not for long!

[Chutist]

Ck is way better than the dvc. Especially in the fitting of the slide to frame and barrel fitting

Based on your examination of how many of each? Define "way better"?

I'm open to CK but how about data?

STI has been around a long time... They are the Standard that everybody is shooting for (pun intended).

The DVC looks to be a better from a value standpoint and it comes with two mags... The wait for delivery doesn't seem to be the issue it was since I see some guns in stock plus

chrome, TiNi barrel , comp grip, trigger job, slide lightening, Dawson tool less guide rod and fibre optic front sight on the DVC.

Don't see all of that on the CK? Good Trigger and some slide cuts... and no mags?

You are kidding right? You don't see 'all of that' on the ck?

Ok tin barrel is an option. That's about $50.

Yea the ck is not hard chrome it's pvd coated either silver (chrome like) or black. That is a much higher end coating than hard chrome. Thinner, stronger, harder wearing and slippery too.

'Comp grip' well they both have a stippled and undercut plastic sti grip.

'Trigger job' the sti has a bunch of cheap mim internals and reports on the trigger could best be described as 'mixed'. The ck has all top shelf EGW internals and the trigger is set by a gunsmith not just assembled on a line.

Tool less guide rod. You've got them there. Ck has a regular 1 piece guide rod. Bummer.

Ck also has a fibre optic front sight

As for the slide to me the DVC looks very cookie cutter and has no real flair to the styling. Just a bunch of oval holes. The ck has nice progressive cuts. But that's really an aesthetic choice. The fact is they both have lightened slides. Some will prefer one style over the other.

So really the dvc has a tooll less guide rod and 2 mags over the ck. the ck has better quality parts, better frame and slide, better finish and is built by a gunsmith, not by 10 different people on a production line. Check out the vid of sti's being fitted with a belt sander!

I'm sure there's some great ones but I've already heard reports of fitting issues and other warranty returns. That's simply because they have a wider tolerance of what they'll pass from a qc perspective. They are built with lower quality parts and assembled on a production line. They are a great gun and well priced but I wouldn't say they are better than a ck nor better value. They are a cheaper gun yes.

Btw I don't quite but into the 'sti's' rattle. I've felt and shot some very nicely fitted sti's. They may be a mass produced, line built gun but they are still a damn good one. I also think the dvc offers some nice features for the money. But if you think every gun they turn out has the same attention to detail and the same level of quality as a custom gun like a ck then I'd have to disagree.

Excellent info. That's the post I was looking for...

I had not seen even a picture of a CK until a few days ago...most of that info you all think is common knowledge, isn't.

[BeerBaron]

Lol. No problem.

The sti is a great product but it has the same kind of limitations as other mass produced products.

It's like a Toyota camry vs a bmw vs a Lamborghini.

In this case a glock or cz is your Toyota. Mass built, bottom end but functional, reliable and will get where you need to go.

The sti is your bmw. Still mass built but has some nicer features, finishes, bit faster etc but at the end of the day still not top end, and has its qc issues. It's built by a bunch of different guys in a production line type setup by people trained to do one particular task.

Your svi, akai, etc are your Ferrari. Everything can be custom. All the components are top shelf and if you want it purple it'll come purple. It's basically built by one guy and he's a top craftsman.

The ck stuff fits somewhere between the bmw and Ferrari analogy.

[AWLAZS]

I saw one DVC at the open nationals and it did not make it to the end of the match.

[bonglee0507]

I saw one DVC at the open nationals and it did not make it to the end of the match.

What happened?

[kernelofwisdom]

I saw one DVC at the open nationals and it did not make it to the end of the match.

Do tell!

[cecil]

I have some regrets about getting a STI DVC open 9mm.... after less than 400 rounds .. It had to be returned to STI because the ramp was cut too deep causing 6.7gr auto comp to bulge the brass making the brass unusable ... this load was a tick short of making MAJOR...I was told it will be 2-1/2 months before STI can even look at it because of 2-1/2 month back log of warranty work.. so I don't expect it back until the end of 2014 ... IMHO not real good service for a brand new $3295.00 gun...

[AWLAZS]

I don't think any of the STI factory shooters used sti built guns,

[Trunkmnky]

I ordered the DVC Open - Ended up cancelling it. Bought a CK Thunder instead - never looked back. Gun runs great and have had no issues.

[1911A12011]

I've seen somebody used DVC Open in Level III USPSA Match and after 2 stages the DVC was already hitting 4" away for A zone (no longer zero'd). Then she immediately pulled her back up open gun because she can't afford to loose. She used the back-up gun all the way to the next stages until the end and she won. Anyway, going back to the question. CK or DVC. In my opinion, the CK Arms is better then the DVC (marginal price difference). Why because the CK Arms is not yet mass produced compared to the DVC. I believe the slide to frame and barrel/comp fit of CK is far better then the DVC (currently mass produced). CK is also being endorsed by Kevin Gentry and a well know pro-team in USPSA. For the money (a few $$$ difference) CK is better then DVC. On a business stand point, I am sure CK will increase their price latter on once they captured the market. They are now in full capacity factory (with plans of future expansion) and with all their added CNC Machines and talented gunsmiths (full attention to detail). They are currently producing their own small parts, frames, and even steel grips. I am not a sponsored CK shooter but I can tell they have a reasonable pricing.

[Eric_Vmax]

Bookmarking this to read more later. I bought a DVC in 9 Major, Sold my two Trubors in 38 super. I have the STI Steel Master and working out some kinks but gun runs great for my shooting level. Maybe faster trigger fingers can benefit from all of the master gunsmithing done on their guns, but STI produces a great factory out of the box race gun IMO.

[kernelofwisdom]

I've seen somebody used DVC Open in Level III USPSA Match and after 2 stages the DVC was already hitting 4" away for A zone (no longer zero'd). Then she immediately pulled her back up open gun because she can't afford to loose. She used the back-up gun all the way to the next stages until the end and she won. Anyway, going back to the question. CK or DVC. In my opinion, the CK Arms is better then the DVC (marginal price difference). Why because the CK Arms is not yet mass produced compared to the DVC. I believe the slide to frame and barrel/comp fit of CK is far better then the DVC (currently mass produced). CK is also being endorsed by Kevin Gentry and a well know pro-team in USPSA. For the money (a few $$$ difference) CK is better then DVC. On a business stand point, I am sure CK will increase their price latter on once they captured the market. They are now in full capacity factory (with plans of future expansion) and with all their added CNC Machines and talented gunsmiths (full attention to detail). They are currently producing their own small parts, frames, and even steel grips. I am not a sponsored CK shooter but I can tell they have a reasonable pricing.

I heard (but can't confirm) the accuracy issue is what did in the DVC Open at Nats.

I don't know what would cause that on this gun in particular, but I can say when I took out the mount screws to add on a thumb rest they were the loosest of any I've ever taken off. I put them back with some lock-tite.

[Chutist]

I've seen somebody used DVC Open in Level III USPSA Match and after 2 stages the DVC was already hitting 4" away for A zone (no longer zero'd). Then she immediately pulled her back up open gun because she can't afford to loose. She used the back-up gun all the way to the next stages until the end and she won. Anyway, going back to the question. CK or DVC. In my opinion, the CK Arms is better then the DVC (marginal price difference). Why because the CK Arms is not yet mass produced compared to the DVC. I believe the slide to frame and barrel/comp fit of CK is far better then the DVC (currently mass produced). CK is also being endorsed by Kevin Gentry and a well know pro-team in USPSA. For the money (a few $$$ difference) CK is better then DVC. On a business stand point, I am sure CK will increase their price latter on once they captured the market. They are now in full capacity factory (with plans of future expansion) and with all their added CNC Machines and talented gunsmiths (full attention to detail). They are currently producing their own small parts, frames, and even steel grips. I am not a sponsored CK shooter but I can tell they have a reasonable pricing.

I heard (but can't confirm) the accuracy issue is what did in the DVC Open at Nats.

I don't know what would cause that on this gun in particular, but I can say when I took out the mount screws to add on a thumb rest they were the loosest of any I've ever taken off. I put them back with some lock-tite.

IF... and we don't know... But IF the screws came loose...

I have a hard time "blaming" the gun. Wouldn't you check over the gun, lock-tite screws and give gun a good going over before heading to a major match?

-

So to recap from a couple of weeks reading here and some good info...

STI DVC

"Team built" - One person does each task... Assembly line style

You get what you get, within the QC range.

CK ARMS - One guy - one gun - but you don't know the guy. An "employee" gunsmith

One guy builds the gun start to finish

Might be as good as a custom gun just limited options.

Higher QC standard than the assembly line

You get what they built

FULL Custom

You can have what you want - you know the smith and he's looking out for you.

One on One support from your Gun Smith.

Do I have it right?

---------

Edited October 19, 2015 by Chutist

[Noximus03]

screw it, I was misinformed. sorry….

Edited October 19, 2015 by Noximus03

[Noximus03]

I've seen somebody used DVC Open in Level III USPSA Match and after 2 stages the DVC was already hitting 4" away for A zone (no longer zero'd). Then she immediately pulled her back up open gun because she can't afford to loose. She used the back-up gun all the way to the next stages until the end and she won. Anyway, going back to the question. CK or DVC. In my opinion, the CK Arms is better then the DVC (marginal price difference). Why because the CK Arms is not yet mass produced compared to the DVC. I believe the slide to frame and barrel/comp fit of CK is far better then the DVC (currently mass produced). CK is also being endorsed by Kevin Gentry and a well know pro-team in USPSA. For the money (a few $$$ difference) CK is better then DVC. On a business stand point, I am sure CK will increase their price latter on once they captured the market. They are now in full capacity factory (with plans of future expansion) and with all their added CNC Machines and talented gunsmiths (full attention to detail). They are currently producing their own small parts, frames, and even steel grips. I am not a sponsored CK shooter but I can tell they have a reasonable pricing.

I heard (but can't confirm) the accuracy issue is what did in the DVC Open at Nats.

I don't know what would cause that on this gun in particular, but I can say when I took out the mount screws to add on a thumb rest they were the loosest of any I've ever taken off. I put them back with some lock-tite.

IF... and we don't know... But IF the screws came loose...

I have a hard time "blaming" the gun. Wouldn't you check over the gun, lock-tite screws and give gun a good going over before heading to a major match?

-

So to recap from a couple of weeks reading here and some good info...

STI DVC

"Team built" - One person does each task... Assembly line style

You get what you get, within the QC range.

CK ARMS - One guy - one gun - but you don't know the guy. An "employee" gunsmith

One guy builds the gun start to finish

Might be as good as a custom gun just limited options.

Higher QC standard than the assembly line

You get what they built

FULL Custom

You can have what you want - you know the smith and he's looking out for you.

One on One support from your Gun Smith.

Do I have it right?

---------

Well, for the most part, yes. Let me clarify a couple of things that I know to be true. Disclaimer- I have zero hands on knowledge of the DVC, or the line, so I won't comment.

As far as the QC at CK, not one of hose guns leaves that building without final approval from Bobby K himself. That doesn't mean he personally tests each and every one, but I'd put money on it that every gun that leaves his shop has been in his hands.

Second, you do not get what they built, at least you don't have to. If you want it as advertised and stock, you will get it that way. HOWEVER, you want to have something else on there? Request it, I'm sure the boys at CK will accommodate you……but that may add a little time to your delivery, of course.

Want a Zig racker? Ask.

Thumb rest? Ask.

Aluminum, or steel grip? Ask.

Slide ride, or RTS? Ask.

Different color options? Ask (I am personally digging the chameleon thing they've got going on).

Third, and this is before I became an FGW shooter, I had an issue with an STI gun that Bobby had never touched. As with all things, parts wear out, and my 2011 went full auto once. I called Bobby saturday night, shipped the gun off for a trigger job and EGW makeover, gun showed up at my FFL friday morning.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Noximus03

[earthshine402]

.

Edited October 19, 2015 by earthshine402

[Noximus03]

........

Edited October 19, 2015 by Noximus03

[Noximus03]

Just to add, and edit to my above post, also to clarify the QC portion....So to be completely transparent, a highly skilled and trained gunsmith performs the bulk of the work on the CK Arms gun. Every part is hand fitted to the tightest of tolerances. Bobby live fire function fires every gun before they go out for refinishing and again after final assembly, which Bobby also does personally.

The defining difference between "custom" and "semi custom" boils down to who designs the gun. If the CUSTOMer does, it's a full blown custom ordered and built gun. Guns that are hand built to a manufacturers specs are considered "semi custom". Don't think for 1 minute the quality and craftsmanship of the CK Arms gun is any less than other USPSA style guns.

CK Arms has an impeccable reputation for support, customer service, and warranty. The return rate on the CK Arms guns is currently around 2% and that's a really strong number considering the volume of guns they produce. I may be bias, but that's strong.

[AWLAZS]

I saw one DVC at the open nationals and it did not make it to the end of the match.

What happened?

Bullets started hitting the comp.

[waynes_world_45]

Been shooting a CK Open since July 2014. About 8k rounds. Not a hiccup unless you count optic issues. Shoots flat and fast. I couldn't be more pleased.