drysideshooter Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 A government worker, I should have known. CEO of a successful company, so no doubt we think quite a bit differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 thx Dan, your check is in the mail .... I have been called many things in my life but I can assure you that my name & the word insecure have never been used in the same sentence ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) you're making assumptions again ...... "gov't employee" does not equate with 'thinks like a gov't employee' .... there is a reason I retired at 22 yrs as a AF Col instead of hanging around & turned down (twice) a Senior Service School slot which virtually guarantees promotion .... I've been running my own successful custom woodworking company since 1997 & recently started another LLC. I guess that makes me the CEO of 2 successful companies ... and none of the above has anything to do with my attitudes toward Steel Challenge or any other action shooting sport, those come from being a student of human behavior and how that affects competitive performance Edited August 28, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Lets try to keep the thread on topic. A reminder from the Forum Guidelines: AttitudePlease be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful.No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter.Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Suffice it to say that a lot of people, including some of the nation's top shooters, have gravitated away from SC to other steel sports like pro-am and ISSA for a variety of reasons, none of which have anything to do with a lack of skill shooting, or it reminding them how inadequate their shooting is. Edited August 28, 2015 by drysideshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Both of you make valid points and probably agree more than you disagree . One of the big reasons that a lot of the bigger shooters are not shooting steel challenge is due to how that is run right now and the lack of a prize table. You organize the match, have a huge prize table like it did in the past, and everyone will be back..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Both of you make valid points and probably agree more than you disagree . One of the big reasons that a lot of the bigger shooters are not shooting steel challenge is due to how that is run right now and the lack of a prize table. You organize the match, have a huge prize table like it did in the past, and everyone will be back..... Remember when $30,000 was up for grabs first time 80 seconds would be broke. I think they were having a pretty good draw back then. Oh yeah, not that this would cause more to folks to sign up, but it was so popular that it was televised many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 hmmmm .... the US Steel Nationals I attended in March 2015 had KC, Max, Dave S., B.J Norris, Doug K, Jessica Duff, Shannon Smith, Manny Bragg, KC Cochran, etc , etc. Apparently some think that these are not the nation's top shooters? Can someone name a top shooter that didn't attend the 2015 US Steel Nationals this past March? All the current issues aside with HQ & Steel Challenge it sure looked like we had a pretty good showing of the best of the best ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I would like to see Bob Vogel shoot that match.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 hmmmm .... the US Steel Nationals I attended in March 2015 had KC, Max, Dave S., B.J Norris, Doug K, Jessica Duff, Shannon Smith, Manny Bragg, KC Cochran, etc , etc. Apparently some think that these are not the nation's top shooters? Can someone name a top shooter that didn't attend the 2015 US Steel Nationals this past March? All the current issues aside with HQ & Steel Challenge it sure looked like we had a pretty good showing of the best of the best ... Back in the early 2000's, when it was in SoCal and not run by USPSA, the shooters that attended was a who's who in the sport. You had everyone who was on the USPSA World Shoot teams and then some. No one missed it and other matches scheduled around it. The only time it got moved was for a World Shoot, IIRC. Now days no one gives it or any SC match a second thought. As for who did not attend, that list is long and distinguished but I'll name just two ; Jerry M. & TGO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 How were the USPSA steel nationals this past year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 hmmmm .... the US Steel Nationals I attended in March 2015 had KC, Max, Dave S., B.J Norris, Doug K, Jessica Duff, Shannon Smith, Manny Bragg, KC Cochran, etc , etc. Apparently some think that these are not the nation's top shooters? Can someone name a top shooter that didn't attend the 2015 US Steel Nationals this past March? All the current issues aside with HQ & Steel Challenge it sure looked like we had a pretty good showing of the best of the best ... Back in the early 2000's, when it was in SoCal and not run by USPSA, the shooters that attended was a who's who in the sport. You had everyone who was on the USPSA World Shoot teams and then some. No one missed it and other matches scheduled around it. The only time it got moved was for a World Shoot, IIRC. Now days no one gives it or any SC match a second thought. As for who did not attend, that list is long and distinguished but I'll name just two ; Jerry M. & TGO. You must realize that in a world without logic, because SOME obviously top shooters made a match it must mean that ALL did so, and no shooters of any real skill has ever given up shooting SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 hmmmm .... the US Steel Nationals I attended in March 2015 had KC, Max, Dave S., B.J Norris, Doug K, Jessica Duff, Shannon Smith, Manny Bragg, KC Cochran, etc , etc. Apparently some think that these are not the nation's top shooters? Can someone name a top shooter that didn't attend the 2015 US Steel Nationals this past March? All the current issues aside with HQ & Steel Challenge it sure looked like we had a pretty good showing of the best of the best ... I'm pretty certain that match actually had zero affiliation with USPSA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 hmmmm .... the US Steel Nationals I attended in March 2015 had KC, Max, Dave S., B.J Norris, Doug K, Jessica Duff, Shannon Smith, Manny Bragg, KC Cochran, etc , etc. Apparently some think that these are not the nation's top shooters? Can someone name a top shooter that didn't attend the 2015 US Steel Nationals this past March? All the current issues aside with HQ & Steel Challenge it sure looked like we had a pretty good showing of the best of the best ... Back in the early 2000's, when it was in SoCal and not run by USPSA, the shooters that attended was a who's who in the sport. You had everyone who was on the USPSA World Shoot teams and then some. No one missed it and other matches scheduled around it. The only time it got moved was for a World Shoot, IIRC. Now days no one gives it or any SC match a second thought. As for who did not attend, that list is long and distinguished but I'll name just two ; Jerry M. & TGO. You must realize that in a world without logic, because SOME obviously top shooters made a match it must mean that ALL did so, and no shooters of any real skill has ever given up shooting SC I'm not really sure what that is suppose to mean or who it was directed at but the fact is that a number of the top shooters have stopped going to SC major matches. Many of them have moved to 3 gun. I can only imagine it is due to the money and their sponsors. Your original post asked " Is Steel Challenge Dying?". The answer is, IMHO, yes. It has been over the last few years due to neglect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawmangr Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 This one has been fun to read My thought, which doesn't add much, is that Steel Challenge does seem to be waning (I would not say "dying"), but steel shooting continues to be popular. This from a guy who shoots at the SC matches. Our local one worked in a "fun" stage last month to change it up a little bit and received very positive feedback on the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) So because Jerry & TGO didn't go that means the top shooters are not interested in Steel Challenge any more? If I remember correctly wasn't Jerry a no-show at the revolver nationals? Something he's won every year for like 100 years? I think if around 90 % of what most people consider the top 30 or so shooters around go to the match a reasonable person would conclude that it is still popular .... then 9 names I rattled off were just off the top of my head ..... the list is quite a bit more extensive if you actually go look at the names .... Edited August 29, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I'm pretty certain that match actually had zero affiliation with USPSA... I think it's been that way for the past two years. In fact I just looked at the results on steelchallenge.com and going back to 2009 there are no results from any national level match. That's a crock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I don't know about dying... Some of our little shooting group just started SC matches a year ago and we have had fun. We even tried the Pa State Steel Challenge match last year and more are shooting in it this September. We don't do USPSA or the other matches, just falling steel and SC. I think the "new" stuff (.22, .22rifle and now at our local club, pistol carbine) are all intended to bring in more people to the sport. I also think (joke alert!!) that if this vitriolic bannanage' goes on for 8 more pages SC might just commit suicide! But, maybe that's just me not liking the arguing and condescending attitudes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 I think steel shooting in general is doing great and gaining in popularity. Look at what the attendance has been like in Piru for the big West Coast Steel match. Check out the number of shooters and the size of the prize table. Of course it was started by the same folks that created Steel Challenge and later sold it to USPSA. Hopefully USPSA will dedicate some time and resources and revive SC. This past weekend a former multi time national and world SC champion stayed at my home prior to a match. He told me about extensive suggestions he had made as SC support started waning and said it all fell on deaf ears and said it was obvious they didn't care much about SC and saw it only as a way to get new shooters and funnel them to USPSA. His opinion of course, but I have heard it from others. At least for clubs that already have the steel and want to have matches, there are other alternatives. I do have to admit that the original SC stages designed by the two Mikes are genius. They all have a trap or two and are just great designs. I think the current stages they use for the West Coast match are great too, and there are quite a few other good stages out there. The way ISSA matches go is just a bit different mindset. Instead of practicing to master a set group of stages and then executing, you will see stages you have never seen before and have to figure out the best way for you to shoot it and might shoot it more than one way after trying. Neither one is right or wrong or better. Just different. We are getting more and more USPSA shooters at the 3 ISSA matches in our area because of the additional problem solving aspect. Many have said they didn't enjoy SC or never shot it because of the format. We have also seen stages with more than 5 plates, which adds another dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 This past weekend a former multi time national and world SC champion stayed at my home prior to a match. He told me about extensive suggestions he had made as SC support started waning and said it all fell on deaf ears and said it was obvious they didn't care much about SC and saw it only as a way to get new shooters and funnel them to USPSA. His opinion of course, but I have heard it from others. Would you mind summarizing some of his suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 This past weekend a former multi time national and world SC champion stayed at my home prior to a match. He told me about extensive suggestions he had made as SC support started waning and said it all fell on deaf ears and said it was obvious they didn't care much about SC and saw it only as a way to get new shooters and funnel them to USPSA. His opinion of course, but I have heard it from others. Would you mind summarizing some of his suggestions? I am not sure what they all were. He said each year he submitted a several page letter to the folks at USPSA. He said he called one year to inquire about what he had written and all he got was a "yeah, your letter is around here somewhere". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) "yeah, your letter is around here somewhere". LOL.. They said that ? Edited September 10, 2015 by bigtimelarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drysideshooter Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Yesterday my son and I traveled to shoot an ISSA match that we try to make it to each month. It always draws some great shooters, including a nationally known 3 gun competitor that is regularly seen on TV and who will be shooting the nationals this year, as well as folks that have won and been top finishers at the West Coast Steel Championship, NSSF Rimfire Challenge Championships, etc. All of the folks have shot Steel Challenge, and in fact we have shot SC matches with them in the past. A couple of them have seen this thread and we talked about it yesterday. All said almost exactly the same things. All had done well at SC but grew tired of the same stages. All acknowledge that learning a stage and mastering it and getting the muscle memory is indeed a challenge. All eventually got tired of it though. Not everyone does, but some do. All of us said we saw many stages yesterday that we had never shot before. There is always discussion about how each is going to try shooting a stage, and often times someone may end up doing it differently after shooting a string or two. For some of us that problem solving is a fun element. It will remain to be seen if USPSA supports and markets SC more in the future, and if it holds enough shooters interest. There are deffenitely alternatives available for folks that want to do something different for any reason. The West Coast match is obviously following more of a SC format now with the 7 set stages. Look at the number of entries and what the prize table was like for that match this year though. Any discipline that draws new shooters and gets folks out enjoying their guns on a regular basis is a good thing for all of us. I hope SC has a bright future, I truly do. With the number of shooters that I've talked with, many who had certainly mastered the SC game, that grew a bit bored with it, there may need to be some changes. Edited September 13, 2015 by drysideshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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