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Is Steel Challenge Dying?


drysideshooter

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Seems like a happy medium would be to rotate 2-3 standard stages through every month and have the rest be "whatever".

I set up and shoot a stage almost every day. I will practice a particular stage in concept only. Close range faster targets, longer range targets etc. Partly out of being to lazy to measure the course out and partly because I like to think I'm getting practical shooting practice.

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The worst thing to ever happen to the Steel Challenge was for USPSA to buy it. During pre-purchase discussions USPSA promised not to move the location or change the format. Obviously that didn't last long. With two local boys running it, it was one of the longest running, most successful matches out there.

Want to fix it? Get USPSA to leave it alone, turn it back over to steel shooting specialists, and preferably move it back to California. It's success was based on being a stand alone championship in the same way the Bianchi Cup is.

Edited by Bob Hostetter
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The worst thing to ever happen to the Steel Challenge was for USPSA to buy it. During pre-purchase discussions USPSA promised not to move the location or change the format. Obviously that didn't last long. With two local boys running it, it was one of the longest running, most successful matches out there.

Want to fix it? Get USPSA to leave it alone, turn it back over to steel shooting specialists, and preferably move it back to California. It's success was based on being a stand alone championship in the same way the Bianchi Cup is.

I don't think California is the right location for it. But I think that the West Coast is since the Steel Nationals are in Florida.

But it certainly needs to be in one place, with a reliable match director year after year. Bianchi is having the some issues due to lack of good leadership.

November in Southern Arizona would be a good cap for the year. Now who would run it?

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Southern Arizona is not a good place to put it. They already have 2 (3 if you count the Single Stack match) major's in a relatively small geographic area. Southern California is the perfect place to put it because it is hi cap magazine neutral. Somewhere say in the San Diego area. Plenty of secondary entertainment, lots of hotels and airports, perfect weather year round, and a strong local shooting base to draw staff and competitors from.

And there are a couple of good people to look at to run the event.

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Southern Arizona is not a good place to put it. They already have 2 (3 if you count the Single Stack match) major's in a relatively small geographic area. Southern California is the perfect place to put it because it is hi cap magazine neutral. Somewhere say in the San Diego area. Plenty of secondary entertainment, lots of hotels and airports, perfect weather year round, and a strong local shooting base to draw staff and competitors from.

And there are a couple of good people to look at to run the event.

This isn't a local or regional match. This is a national/world level match so it will pull from a much larger pool of competitors. I am willing to bet less than 10% of the shooters at the Steel Nationals are local.

And I don't think that hi cap magazine neutral means what you think it means. There is no exception to the magazine ban for matches, the exception for matches is only for the assault weapons feature ban. Yes it is unlikely to be prosecuted, but that isn't a way to run a major match by encouraging people to break the law.

Also the MD doesn't need to be local. For years Mike ran the Steel Nationals from the complete opposite side of the nation. Only recently has someone local taken over the match. But I think that it would best best if the MD spent some time at the Nationals to see the level of effort they put into setting up the match (read a lot, they use survey equipment to get everything right).

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We will have to just disagree about how (or where) to save the Steel Challenge.

But you are right about the Steel Challenge not getting many local shooters currently but that doesn't apply to when it was in California, probably 30-40% of the competitors were from California. Our little local version called the Briley West Coast Steel pulled 174 centerfire and 101 rimfire shooters last year. How many did the Steel Challenge pull? 131 Centerfire and 47 rimfire? I think we have both the talent to run it and local support to make it a success again.

By hi cap magazine neutral I meant there is no need for hi cap magazine because the stages are basically 5 rounds each and you can't be competitive with pickup shots. By the way, there are NO exception's for Assault weapons or features in California for matches or anything else.

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Our monthly local match generally has 120-130 entries. I would guess no more than two of the semi regulars might shoot the nationals and that is only because there are a couple of nationally competitive shooters here.

It seems like we are talking about two separate things.

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We will have to just disagree about how (or where) to save the Steel Challenge.

But you are right about the Steel Challenge not getting many local shooters currently but that doesn't apply to when it was in California, probably 30-40% of the competitors were from California. Our little local version called the Briley West Coast Steel pulled 174 centerfire and 101 rimfire shooters last year. How many did the Steel Challenge pull? 131 Centerfire and 47 rimfire? I think we have both the talent to run it and local support to make it a success again.

By hi cap magazine neutral I meant there is no need for hi cap magazine because the stages are basically 5 rounds each and you can't be competitive with pickup shots. By the way, there are NO exception's for Assault weapons or features in California for matches or anything else.

You are comparing the mismanaged WSSC, I was talking about the Steel Nationals that have been in Florida for the last 7 years or so. It had 213 centerfire entries (plus about a dozen DNFs or DQs) and 111 rimfire (with 5 DNFs/DQs). I believe that it can get the same 300+ shooters in Southern Arizona and that is without pulling all that many from local residents as shooters. Sure we won't get 300+ shooters the first year, but within a few years it would get up there if it was managed right.

And there is an exception to the California Assault Weapons ban for non-residents competing in an organized competition using the assault weapon. But that only exempts the features not magazine capacity. I asked on Calguns when I was considering shooting the West Coast Steel Championships.

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I find the "where the match should be" issue interesting. I don't think we (USPSA or Steel Challenge etc) should be putting on national ($$$$) matches in states with restrictive gun laws. Puts California out of the running...

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I find the "where the match should be" issue interesting. I don't think we (USPSA or Steel Challenge etc) should be putting on national ($$$$) matches in states with restrictive gun laws. Puts California out of the running...

I agree, but not just out of principle, but out of practicality.

The match may be low capacity magazine neutral, but I don't own any 10 round magazines for my competition guns (except for my 9mm 1911), and I am sure that I am not the only one. Heck some guns don't even have 10 round magazines, for example the last time I checked the XDM didn't. For even for those that do, with mag wells and such they may not work.

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yeah, not really interested in traveling to any communist state to compete and giving them my hard-earned money for things like hotels, rental cars, food & entertainment while I'm there so they can continue to promote their ridiculous beliefs ....

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yeah, not really interested in traveling to any communist state to compete and giving them my hard-earned money for things like hotels, rental cars, food & entertainment while I'm there so they can continue to promote their ridiculous beliefs ....

Amen to that!

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yeah, not really interested in traveling to any communist state to compete and giving them my hard-earned money for things like hotels, rental cars, food & entertainment while I'm there so they can continue to promote their ridiculous beliefs ....

Aw, come on, lots of folks here who would love a good match, from a promoter perspective we do have the most USPSA members of any state to pull from ;-) (http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/2455-how-many-uspsa-shooters-per-state/?p=59563)

I would have to think a few ten round mags would be the least expensive part of any trip, or of anything most folks have done firearm-wise in a long time, LOL.

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yeah, not really interested in traveling to any communist state to compete and giving them my hard-earned money for things like hotels, rental cars, food & entertainment while I'm there so they can continue to promote their ridiculous beliefs ....

Aw, come on, lots of folks here who would love a good match, from a promoter perspective we do have the most USPSA members of any state to pull from ;-) (http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/2455-how-many-uspsa-shooters-per-state/?p=59563)

I would have to think a few ten round mags would be the least expensive part of any trip, or of anything most folks have done firearm-wise in a long time, LOL.

NO

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yeah, not really interested in traveling to any communist state to compete and giving them my hard-earned money for things like hotels, rental cars, food & entertainment while I'm there so they can continue to promote their ridiculous beliefs ....

Aw, come on, lots of folks here who would love a good match, from a promoter perspective we do have the most USPSA members of any state to pull from ;-) (http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/2455-how-many-uspsa-shooters-per-state/?p=59563)

I would have to think a few ten round mags would be the least expensive part of any trip, or of anything most folks have done firearm-wise in a long time, LOL.

How many times do I have to say this, the WSSC isn't a local match. It should be in a location where everyone can attend. California isn't one of those places.

Heck if you want to look at the numbers and decided where to have it, then it should be in Texas. Middle of the nation with 1700 members, and another 1000 or so in the surrounding states.

Or have it in Florida but giving it time to grow instead of yanking it around the calendar. We not only have nearly 1700 members, but if you put it in the middle of the state no person is more than a few hours away.

My suggestion of Southern Arizona was due to the fact that there is an established USPSA presence (a ton of it concentrated in one area), but is also close to all the West Coast shooters for whom going to Steel Nationals in Florida may be time or cost prohibitive (I know that it is a 6-8 hour flight before you factor in time on the ground). And unlike California you bring virtually any gun you want, and carry if you want to.

Having it in November as during a time that there are only a handful of matches, and none of them National level.

Edited by PPGMD
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as long as it's not in a communist state I not sure it matters where it's held. Unless you are fortunate enough for the match to be in your backyard you have to travel and that basically wastes an enire day .. driving, flying whatever you'll still need to plan travel days. What i do think is important is to pick a location and date and stay with it. This way folks can make travel plans in advance to help defray some of the costs, plan vacation time, etc ... and if we're going to continue to have both a WSSC and US Steel National Championship they should be 6 months apart ....

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How many times do I have to say this, the WSSC isn't a local match. It should be in a location where everyone can attend. California isn't one of those places.

I agree, for what little it's worth. Put the matches somewhere that's kinda central, kinda accessable. California and Florida sure aren't. I'd like to shoot one but both locations ensure that ain't happening. I am signed up for the NSSF Rimfire "World" Championship in Arkansas. They picked a location that's actually somewhat "central". A 12 hr drive and four nites in the finest Motel 6 in Ft Smith but do-able while a California or Florida location is in the "ain't gonna happen" category. I can't be the only one.

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Here's my 2 cents from somebody that went to the WSSC religiously and spent many an August sweating my ass of on the practice range at home--

- Steel is alive and doing well at the local level. If clubs have the steel and matches, people will come. Great for newbies, serious and non-serious shooters, extra trigger time and its fun.

- The World match is on life-support right now. The things that drew everybody were the killer prize table and all the side events and fun that could be had around the main match even if you weren't in the running to win it. Without that all you get is the guys that can win it and whoever else is nearby.

- USPSA management of SCSA is completely dysfunctional. So much so that NSSF and Scholastic Steel and whoever else are starting their own matches because SCSA is so unresponsive to customer demand. They started out on the wrong foot by demanding clubs pay them 'because they own it now', then the separate membership fiasco with a promise of classifications someday and everybody I know just gave up on them. We still shoot several local steel matches a month but could care less what SCSA is up to.

- There is a difference between trying to get as good as you possibly can on the 8 SC stages and trying to get as good as you can on random steel stages. Different strokes for different folks.

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yeah, not really interested in traveling to any communist state to compete and giving them my hard-earned money for things like hotels, rental cars, food & entertainment while I'm there so they can continue to promote their ridiculous beliefs ....

Aw, come on, lots of folks here who would love a good match, from a promoter perspective we do have the most USPSA members of any state to pull from ;-) (http://www.doodieproject.com/index.php?/topic/2455-how-many-uspsa-shooters-per-state/?p=59563)

I would have to think a few ten round mags would be the least expensive part of any trip, or of anything most folks have done firearm-wise in a long time, LOL.

@ $60-$65+ a piece, mags for a 2011 it starts to get pricey.

As long as WSSC (or any match) is held in a hostile state I am boycotting.

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Agreed. I already have 5 high cap mags. Why spend another $500 on mags to shoot one match a year if you don't live in a state that restricts them.

Can't bring myself to go to a match in California. That's why I started looking for matches else where and compiling a list of matches in 2015 and 2016. Plenty of other good ones out there.

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Steel Challenge has become my Favorite too. IMO I think when they have Steel Challenge Matches with 6 Stages,
Have 4 Actual Steel Challenge stages and 2 Stages that are made up, be it a Texas Star or whatever.
I do like to shoot the Actual Steel Challenge stages to see my improvement over time.

Plus It's easier for me to bring New Shooters to Steel Challenge. They can start Low Ready and have a good time

and if they want to get more into it they can get a Holster, Pouches and Shoot USPSA.

Edited by bigtimelarry
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First time poster, had to say something. So nobody ends up in trouble there is NO, I repeat NO, exception to the assault weapon ban in California. I'm not sure what or who you asked on Calguns but they are dead wrong. You actually believe California give enough of a s*** about competitions to build in an exemption for them, come on?? Police officers can't even build their own "assault" weapon without a department letterhead-Bullet button for everbody unless you build featureless. Just because nobody pays any attention to the laws at the matches does not make what they are doing legal. Just to be 100% clear, there are NO exceptions to California's assault weapon ban for the odinary citizen. Please do not get yourself into any trouble for our stupid laws.

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First time poster, had to say something. So nobody ends up in trouble there is NO, I repeat NO, exception to the assault weapon ban in California. I'm not sure what or who you asked on Calguns but they are dead wrong. You actually believe California give enough of a s*** about competitions to build in an exemption for them, come on?? Police officers can't even build their own "assault" weapon without a department letterhead-Bullet button for everbody unless you build featureless. Just because nobody pays any attention to the laws at the matches does not make what they are doing legal. Just to be 100% clear, there are NO exceptions to California's assault weapon ban for the odinary citizen. Please do not get yourself into any trouble for our stupid laws.

And what does this have to do with Steel Challenge and USPSA's mismanagement of it?

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Nothing-just noticed some posters thinking there was an exemption and didnt want to see anyone coming into california for a match get into trouble. Sorry for looking out for fellow shooters-guess were not all in this together-wont happen again.

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