Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Is Steel Challenge Dying?


drysideshooter

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 197
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

remember, just because the match is not a sanctioned match does not mean it is not a Steel Challenge match. Our club has been running Steel Challenge matches for 2 years now and we run the exact SC stages. I just can't get my MD to run sanctioned matches .... :) but that doesn't mean they are not Steel Challenge ....

when i go to a range tthat I have not been to before I always ask if it is a sanctioned match. If they say "no" then I ask more questions and depending on the answers I may not go ...

Matches like the Pro-Am in Frostproof are certainly fun but when I head out to a match advertisied as a 'Steel Challenge' match that is what I expect to get, even if it is not sanctioned and my open scores don't count for classification.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I have no issues with clubs doing non-official stages for club level matches. It mixes things up a bit as not everyone wants to sharpen their Roundabout times down by a fraction of a second, and some clubs simply can't host many of the stages at the same time.

For example one of my local clubs, WAC, only has two bays where you can shoot the walls. So they would be pretty limited if all they did was official stages, due to a lot of them requiring some shots where if you missed it would go into the wall. And the guys at DPC puts some evil stages during their "Real Steel" matches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as long as it is not advertised as a 'Steel Challenge' match I would agree with you. Otherwise it would be just like going to a match advertised as a USPSA match only to discover that stage 1 was a 1 shot draw to a 50 yard partial & stage 2 was a 57 round hosefest and stage 3 mandated 5 reloads no matter what division you were in ....

Edited by Nimitz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why report if the USPSA provides almost no advantage for reporting? I was just out at Griffen for the GA state match.

That is something I am struggling with. The classification system is why I do it. I could make the club over $400 last year by not sending in the fees.

I have been encouraged by the discussion I have seen on the USPSA forum. Seems all candidates recognize it is FUBAR and needs lots of attention.

I would love to see a sanctioned area steel challenge match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as long as it is not advertised as a 'Steel Challenge' match I would agree with you. Otherwise it would be just like going to a match advertised as a USPSA match only to discover that stage 1 was a 1 shot draw to a 50 yard partial & stage 2 was a 57 round hosefest and stage 3 mandated 5 reloads no matter what division you were in ....

Can we increase the round count on stage 1 to match stage 2? That way us Bianchi Shooters can score some serious stage points.

But you have a point, due to range conditions we shouldn't expect club matches to be completely legal. They certainly aren't going to take it to the same level that the Nationals crew does, where they bring out survey equipment to ensure the targets are at the proper height per the shooters perspective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We shoot what we call "Fun Steel" at our club and I travel to various other clubs in Washington State that shoot official Steel Challenge and combination matches where stages are both standard SC set ups mixed in with different ones. I think the game itself is alive and well.

The fun type mixed stage matches seem to out number the traditional sanctioned SC matches about 3 to one. I also shot the Yakima match last week with all non-traditional stages and really enjoyed it. Last years WA State Championships were all non -tradition stages and was very well attended and got great reviews.

I do like to go to an "official" match now and then just to see if and where I am improving. Both types of matches have something to offer. The repetitive nature of the SC stages allows you to easily see progress and weakness. The fun type stages make it challenging to have to shoot something new every time and in a way levels the playing field a bit. Folks that don't practice the same 6 or 8 stages continually don't have a big advantage shooting something new for the first time. That being said, if you're fast at hitting traditional steel plates, you're still fast.

As I stated, I think it's still alive and well but if USPSA is interested in gaining more shooters into the organization, some of the ideas expressed in several of the previous posts would definitely help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here in the Cincinnati, OH we have Friday Night Steel at the Fairfield Gun Club and Saturday Steel at Miami Rifle & Pistol. These matches consist of 3 to 4 stages with a total round count between 60-80 rounds. There is one non-reloading stage with the other stages requiring at least one reload and sometmes two reloads. Plate size and placement vary match to match with some plates requiring single hits and others requiring 2 hits. A miss that is not made up will add 3 seconds to your score. I like shooting steel challenge matches but I think our local shots are more challenging and exciting with the reloads and double taps. It would be nice to add a little more variety to SCSA.

Edited by Big Nick
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This week I have talked with a few more folks about SCSA. Most said they didn't have a big problem with just the same 8 stages, but felt they didn't get any real support from SCSA. There is going to be a new steel match starting up locally, and it will be another "fun steel" and not use the Steel Challenge stages. A few folks have said there have been big promises about reviving SCSA in the past that haven't come to fruition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This week I have talked with a few more folks about SCSA. Most said they didn't have a big problem with just the same 8 stages, but felt they didn't get any real support from SCSA. There is going to be a new steel match starting up locally, and it will be another "fun steel" and not use the Steel Challenge stages. A few folks have said there have been big promises about reviving SCSA in the past that haven't come to fruition.

Hey Dry! I didn't see you last Sat at the Ephrata Steel shoot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This week I have talked with a few more folks about SCSA. Most said they didn't have a big problem with just the same 8 stages, but felt they didn't get any real support from SCSA. There is going to be a new steel match starting up locally, and it will be another "fun steel" and not use the Steel Challenge stages. A few folks have said there have been big promises about reviving SCSA in the past that haven't come to fruition.

Hey Dry! I didn't see you last Sat at the Ephrata Steel shoot!

Our daughter had surgery for her broken back and was recovering or we would have been there. We will be there next month for sure. The son and I are heading down to the big gun show in Reno and then coming home and hitting the Yakima match and then Ephrata the next weekend.

Patrick, it looks like we will have a steel match in Tricities soon. To start it will probably be on the 4th Sunday of the month in the months there are 5 Sundays. I'm thinking we can get it up to a monthly level. Would be nice to have 3 steel matches within a couple hours of each other every month. Hoping we can draw some of you hot shooting television celebrity types to the local match!

I sold my 38SC SVIand am just breaking in an open XDm for the steel matches. Think I finally have a load I am somewhat happy with and enough powder to keep it fed for a bit. Shooting the Yak match with it was premature and I should have probably shot something else. Hoping for better runs next time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rick T we have a SC match every month, CCPL in Fresno, we have a match this Sat, 3/21/15, check our FB page CCPL Fresno, hope to see ya.

Great to know. Fresno is within range and Saturdays much preferred over Sundays. I'll check it out!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion there are a couple things that Steel Challenge needs to do to improve its product:

1. Add some new stages. I am not necessarily advocating 10 or 20 new stages, I think 2 new ones to start might be enough. I would like to see some variety but you don't want so much variety that you run off your core customer base.

2. Introduce a center fire division that allows a low ready start. In my mind you would limit this to iron sights and striker fired/DA only guns. The match that I shoot is an outlaw match and they allow center fire to shoot from low ready. There are only a few of us that draw from holster. If they required draw from holster there would only be a few of us left. It also makes it much easier to bring new shooters out to try the game.

3. Fix the 22LR problem! Only half kidding on this. Find a way to use USPSA to get more 22LR available at the club level. Some type of program like is available for LEO. I know that this problem is limiting the participation of some people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

In my neck of the woods the top SC club stopped having their matches a few years ago because they were not getting any support from management. They have gone to a combo of fun matches plus multigun events. But now another club last year picked up the gauntlet and is having a few plus a state match and now one of my clubs PNTC has initialed SC matches on the adjoining bays to the USPSA matches and many go to shoot the SC either before they shoot the USPSA match or after. But the main reason I like NSSF Rimfire is the stages are different and the pros don't have a practice advantage over the rest of us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our local club has been using stages that are similar to NSSF stages. The guy who picks out our stages and sets them up shoots a lot of matches all around the place so he takes pictures and sets em up for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like Mosher said Steel Challenge is growing in MS. Since we converted our outlaw match to a sanctioned match the participation has doubled. We get a lot of new shooters because it isn't nearly as intimidating. Another factor in it's rise in popularity is it's easy to set up and doesn't take all day to shoot it. We get most of your shooters through a 5 stage match in about 5 hours. That means they are back home to their families before lunch. The other factor is we heavily publicize the matches on FB and local gun forums. Just in talking about it on social media and letting people know how easy it is to get started, how little gear you need and how quickly the matches go seems to be bringing new shooters on a regular basis.

I think making it more "USPSA like" is a mistake. I hate dragging out 5 metric tons of steel like we do in our outlaw match. It's just too much. Then when you add movement, poppers, starts etc you alienate the rimfire shooters. We also get a quite a few seniors that just don't want to run around.

Personally I'm getting to the point where I prefer the steel matches just because they run so much better than USPSA. I don't get home until 3 or 4 on USPSA days and I'm completely drained when fighting MS heat in the middle of summer. It starts to seem too much like work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is a little off topic but for those of you who think SC isn't that challenging or interesting because its always the same 8 stages ... I think you're missing the fundamental point of Steel Challenge ... it's not about shooting the same 5 plates .... it's about shooting them as fast as possible.

Just about anyone can shoot Roundabout in under 4 secs with a rimfire gun even if you've never seen the stage before. But how many can shoot it in under 2 secs, 4 times in a row .... every time you shoot the stage? It's all about raw speed ... It's called the World Speed Shooting Championships for a reason ...

Edited by Nimitz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are right that shooting any of the 8 stages fast, and improving your times is a challenge Nimitz. I always enjoyed Steel Challenge. In my area (eastern WA, and we will travel to adjoining states like Idaho and Oregon for matches) more and more clubs are going away from Steel Challenge to other steel formats though. The ISSA seems to be most prevalent in my area. I am pretty involved with our local shooting association, and am a former board member. We are adding a steel match for our club, and it won't be Steel Challenge. The one thing I have heard from quite a few clubs that formerly hosted Steel Challenge matches is there was a lack of support, and they didn't feel it justified sending in $1 per shooter to the association for such little support.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I have always wondered why so many people are 'bored' with the standard steel challenge stages. It seems that there are a lot of people who are content to shoot the same trap and skeet stages over and over. Maybe they are the same folks who like darts?

It does make me sad to see steel challenge in its current state. Steel challenge is my personal favorite pistol match, even though I don't get to shoot it often. The West Coast steel match will be fun, anyway. Much, much thanks to Jim O!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see it both ways. We always shoot six official stages every month and it's nice to be able to measure my progress from month to month. Would be ok if they decided to mix it up some and make new stages also.

@ToddKS, we have a "novice" division where you shoot centerfire from low ready. At the club I shoot it has very little participation. No reason not to have it though for those that aren't comfortable drawing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

drysideshooter: I absolutely understand not being interested in shooting sanctioned Steel Challenge matches because of the lack of support from HQ ... right now the only thing you get for your $1/shooter is the centerfire division classification system, which a lot of people don't care about ....

however, I see nothing wrong with the match format itself and if one of the Presidential candidates who said SC needs to be fixed gets elected, maybe we'll see some changes

There is one big change in the works, although not many seem to know about it .... the classification system is being completely updated and will include 4 new divs: RFPO, RFPI, RFRO & RFRI. They are also going to a more USPSA style system where there will be classifications within divisions so no longer will open GMs be competing with production C shooters.

They need to doa lot more, like setup some kind of sectional, state & area matches and not just the national Championship but its a start .... Rome wasn't built in a day ... but the Emperor sure made the slaves get started ...

Edited by Nimitz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is a little off topic but for those of you who think SC isn't that challenging or interesting because its always the same 8 stages ... I think you're missing the fundamental point of Steel Challenge ... it's not about shooting the same 5 plates .... it's about shooting them as fast as possible.

Just about anyone can shoot Roundabout in under 4 secs with a rimfire gun even if you've never seen the stage before. But how many can shoot it in under 2 secs, 4 times in a row .... every time you shoot the stage? It's all about raw speed ... It's called the World Speed Shooting Championships for a reason ...

I 100% agree. This is my second year of shooting pistol competitions and Steel Challenge is by far my favorite game. USPSA is almost like a job with verry little shooting and I dont get home till after 4. IDPA has too much favoritism and rules for those not in the click. Bullseye is boring as hell but I did learn alot.
There is so much I love about steel matches.
1. You get to shoot alot in a short amount of time.
2. The day never drags, its always fun breaking each others balls and eveyone keeps moving.
3. I get home early and I'm not exhausted.
4. I get instant feedback from the targets and timer to know how I'm doing.
5. The scores are posted by the time I get home.
6. Its easy to set goals.
7. Its challenging and rewarding to reach those goals.
I can probably go on all day..
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love shooting steel and get the idea of tracking progress over the same stages.

However, to me becomes only that...working the same stages in order to get somewhere ya can't get

unless you work at that and only that. Not something I am willing to do. Give up all the other shooting games

I play to play one game at the top.

I was, at the last Steel Challenge classification posting an "A" class OPEN shooter.

I earned that rating using rather humble (non open) Glocks and non race holsters.

Could I continue to get faster?...yes. But, I much prefer non standard stages.

That has me shooting what I see in front of me on demand, with the skills I have, rather than the skills I have

honed within those 8 SC stages.

I liken it to the USPSA "El Prez" stage...I practiced that this so much (1996-1997 made GM in 1998) that I did demos

blindfolded. Cool parlor trick but BFD.

Again I see value in both schools of thought...I shot bullseye to Master and loved LOVED Bowling pin shooting and both

of those are the same thing over and over again.

I am happy we have both and will shoot both (and every other shooting sport I can) whenever available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As long as people are out enjoying themselves and competing and shooting their guns I think it is all good, very, very good.

Some formats may appeal more to some than others. We're lucky to have a variety of shooting sports.

I personally enjoy the ISSA format much more than SC, but that's entirely a personal preference. At the same time, I wish all the best to SC and hope it can thrive and be enjoyed by a large number of folks too. I sincerely hope every shooting discipline grows and does well. What is good for one of them is good for all of us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...