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A practical theoretical question


Alamstutz

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I'll start by saying this may not be the proper place for this question but it seemed the best I could figure

Ok here goes

I have wondered for some time about the possibility of a squib load (with a bullet stuck in the barrell) followed by another round shot into the plugged barrel. I am sure it would ruin the gun, or the barrell for sure. Would it always result in harm and injury to the shooter? As a long time reloader I recon this is always a remote possibility.

I am referring to pistol shooting. What are the odds of serious injury. Or just a scary and bad experience.

Maybe some of you have experienced this of heard of someone who has.

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I've seen that happen in 1911 45, and a glock 40

The guy shooting the 1911 had his gun jam and couldn't clear it

After making sure the gun was safe, we hammered the slide back enough the take out the slide stop

Then forced the slide off the frame and found the bulged barrel, and I seem to remember his barrel was clear of both bullets

And He never noticed the squib

The guy with the glock, similar to the above, but his barrel didn't just bulge, it split

Nether guy was hurt

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I'll start by saying this may not be the proper place for this question but it seemed the best I could figure

Ok here goes

I have wondered for some time about the possibility of a squib load (with a bullet stuck in the barrell) followed by another round shot into the plugged barrel. I am sure it would ruin the gun, or the barrell for sure. Would it always result in harm and injury to the shooter? As a long time reloader I recon this is always a remote possibility.

I am referring to pistol shooting. What are the odds of serious injury. Or just a scary and bad experience.

Maybe some of you have experienced this of heard of someone who has.

I know a good way to find this out.

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I'll start by saying this may not be the proper place for this question but it seemed the best I could figure

Ok here goes

I have wondered for some time about the possibility of a squib load (with a bullet stuck in the barrell) followed by another round shot into the plugged barrel. I am sure it would ruin the gun, or the barrell for sure. Would it always result in harm and injury to the shooter? As a long time reloader I recon this is always a remote possibility.

I am referring to pistol shooting. What are the odds of serious injury. Or just a scary and bad experience.

Maybe some of you have experienced this of heard of someone who has.

I know a good way to find this out.

You first Ben! :roflol:

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I witnessed a friend shoot a squib half way down the barrel of his single stack. He racked the slide not having seen any signs of a squib. The next round pushed it out, bulged the barrel, and locked up the slide. No bullets left in the gun and he was perfectly fine, just confused when he couldn't rack the slide. We hammered the slide off, I fit him a new barrel and that gun still runs.

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I'll start by saying this may not be the proper place for this question but it seemed the best I could figure

Ok here goes

I have wondered for some time about the possibility of a squib load (with a bullet stuck in the barrell) followed by another round shot into the plugged barrel. I am sure it would ruin the gun, or the barrell for sure. Would it always result in harm and injury to the shooter?

Answer to both questions: not necessarily. Depends on the round, loading, and barrel wall thickness. In MANY cases it will bulge the barrel but not harm the shooter. I know of a case with a 9mm 1911 where it did no harm at all but that barrel is very thick walled. I think in most cases, gun will be damaged.

I think injuring shooter is actually rare for squib fires, but not so rare with double charge loads especially in .45's with a stainless steel barrel. Double charge loads are dangerous.

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I've had approximately 6 squib loaded guns in for "warranty repair" over the past 8 months, none of which caused any damage to the shooter. 3 of them were .380ACP, all bulged slightly and dislodged the projectile. One 9mm, two .40 S&W (one in an M&P Shield). One of the .40s actually had a double ring in the barrel; the shooter may have actually done it twice!

Now, I just recently received in a Remington 7400 after a squib load (supposedly with factory ammo, we're in contact with the manufacturer), and the barrel banana peeled back to just shy of the forend (12" of split in half). Even this one didn't cause any damage to the shooter, but it could very well have. His young (~6 years old) daughter was at the bench next to him, and the split barrel would have hit her if any pieces had come loose.

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"Practical" and "Theoretical" are typically mutually exclusive.

I have blown up several guns on purpose and have investigated numerous cases of squibs, even one on a FA M4 that took three rounds to clear the squib. Some damaged guns, some did not. Pistol is less likely to have damage and usually is just a ring in the bore. It is very rare for anyone to be hurt with handguns. Shotguns and rifles the chances go up for rupture and with black powder, almost certain.

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I've seen some stupid stuff where .357 Sig and .45 ACP rounds got mixed up in a magazine of a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP. I wish I had the pics to show you, but it appears, the .357 Sig round fed into the chamber and didn't fire. A 45 round was then chambered which forced the 357 round down the barrel. When the 45 round fired, it detonated the .357 round which went down range. When I looked at the pistol, the .357 case was stuck at the end of the barrel. The .45 projectile was lodged in the barrel and the barrel was bulged. Dave at the Springfield Custom shop had never seen such a situation......nobody got hurt.

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I've seen some stupid stuff where .357 Sig and .45 ACP rounds got mixed up in a magazine of a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP. I wish I had the pics to show you, but it appears, the .357 Sig round fed into the chamber and didn't fire. A 45 round was then chambered which forced the 357 round down the barrel. When the 45 round fired, it detonated the .357 round which went down range. When I looked at the pistol, the .357 case was stuck at the end of the barrel. The .45 projectile was lodged in the barrel and the barrel was bulged. Dave at the Springfield Custom shop had never seen such a situation......nobody got hurt.

I've seen a very similar situation with shotguns more than once; the "20-in-12" scenario. Bugled and split barrels ensue, obviously.

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I've seen some stupid stuff where .357 Sig and .45 ACP rounds got mixed up in a magazine of a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP. I wish I had the pics to show you, but it appears, the .357 Sig round fed into the chamber and didn't fire. A 45 round was then chambered which forced the 357 round down the barrel. When the 45 round fired, it detonated the .357 round which went down range. When I looked at the pistol, the .357 case was stuck at the end of the barrel. The .45 projectile was lodged in the barrel and the barrel was bulged. Dave at the Springfield Custom shop had never seen such a situation......nobody got hurt.

I've seen a very similar situation with shotguns more than once; the "20-in-12" scenario. Bugled and split barrels ensue, obviously.

Not obvious. We shot 12s in 10s, 20s in 12s, and 16s in 20s...over 100 rounds during a test...absolutely no damage at all.

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Another variable to concider is where in the barrel the squib is lodged.

If the base of the squid is incontact with the chambered live round there may be no damage to the barrel.

Seen that one once at a match. First round went bang one hole in the target then click... rack a fresh round in and it didn't chamber. Tried again and the round chambered and bang. 3 40 caliber holes in the target. After someone pointed out the 3 holes two shot fired we had a close look at the barrel and no damage.

Woof

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A deaf man once brought his Beretta 92 into Wild West Guns because the gun wouldn't load. They found six bullets lodged in the barrel, the rearmost one finally preventing chambering of another round. If that isn't a testament to Beretta, I don't know what is.

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I've seen some stupid stuff where .357 Sig and .45 ACP rounds got mixed up in a magazine of a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP. I wish I had the pics to show you, but it appears, the .357 Sig round fed into the chamber and didn't fire. A 45 round was then chambered which forced the 357 round down the barrel. When the 45 round fired, it detonated the .357 round which went down range. When I looked at the pistol, the .357 case was stuck at the end of the barrel. The .45 projectile was lodged in the barrel and the barrel was bulged. Dave at the Springfield Custom shop had never seen such a situation......nobody got hurt.

I've seen a very similar situation with shotguns more than once; the "20-in-12" scenario. Bugled and split barrels ensue, obviously.

Not obvious. We shot 12s in 10s, 20s in 12s, and 16s in 20s...over 100 rounds during a test...absolutely no damage at all.

I think he means loading a 20 into a 12, having it slide down the barrel until it got stuck, loading a 12 behind it and firing.

I had this almost happen when a bunch of buddies were out shooting trap in the woods. One of the kids had just gotten a 870 20ga and I had a 870 12ga. The kid once grabbed my 12ga and loaded a 20ga, didn't fire. I went to check out what happened and caught his mistake, but he was about to load another 20ga and try again. The first was halfway down the barrel, I was lucky to catch him in time, but it was scary once everyone knew what almost happened.

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I've seen some stupid stuff where .357 Sig and .45 ACP rounds got mixed up in a magazine of a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP. I wish I had the pics to show you, but it appears, the .357 Sig round fed into the chamber and didn't fire. A 45 round was then chambered which forced the 357 round down the barrel. When the 45 round fired, it detonated the .357 round which went down range. When I looked at the pistol, the .357 case was stuck at the end of the barrel. The .45 projectile was lodged in the barrel and the barrel was bulged. Dave at the Springfield Custom shop had never seen such a situation......nobody got hurt.

I've seen a very similar situation with shotguns more than once; the "20-in-12" scenario. Bugled and split barrels ensue, obviously.

Not obvious. We shot 12s in 10s, 20s in 12s, and 16s in 20s...over 100 rounds during a test...absolutely no damage at all.

I think he means loading a 20 into a 12, having it slide down the barrel until it got stuck, loading a 12 behind it and firing.

I had this almost happen when a bunch of buddies were out shooting trap in the woods. One of the kids had just gotten a 870 20ga and I had a 870 12ga. The kid once grabbed my 12ga and loaded a 20ga, didn't fire. I went to check out what happened and caught his mistake, but he was about to load another 20ga and try again. The first was halfway down the barrel, I was lucky to catch him in time, but it was scary once everyone knew what almost happened.

That's exactly what happened. There wouldn't be any damage from firing a lower gauge in a larger one, same thing as firing a 9mm in a .40 S&W. Accuracy might suffer a bit though. :)

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