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What brass for S&W 929


Almo

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I'm thinking of getting back into revolver with a S&W 929. I've heard so much about brass/moonclip/extraction problems on this forum and elsewhere. The data/opinions are mixed. So, I'm naturally wary. I have a question for those who actually own a 929 and use it for USPSA type matches. If I'm willing to go out and purchase a load of brass specifically for the 929, which brand of brass would you recommend for minimum moonclip and extraction problems at a comfortable minor power factor (like 135)? I know this has been discussed at length in some form, but not necessarily specific to what works consistently for minor power factor loads.

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Can't say about a 929, but Starline brass has been very consistent in their dimensions and available at reasonable prices. If you contact Dave Hearth and either send him the brass type you are going to use, or specify it as in Starline, he can make it fit however you want it. Loose or Tight.

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I am using Winchester Brass and TK custom moon clips design for Winchester brass and it works great for me and my 929. Honestly though TK customs has moon clips design specifically for 5 different brands of brass. So I say if you match the moon clips to the brass as specified on the website you'll be fine.

here's the link http://www.tkcustom.com/cart/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=42&cat=9mm

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Thanks. I was specifically interested in Starline brass because, in another thread on this forum, a couple people noted that they had problems with Starline brass binding the cylinder. I have a bunch of new Starline brass. It works fine in the auto. But, if there is a dimensional problem with it for the 929, I wanted to know before I ordered a bunch of very expensive moonclips made specifically for Starline.

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I have tried Winchester, Remington and Federal...haven't tried Starline. Tom at TK is all dialed in though...he knows exactly which moonclip for which brass whatever you want to do. He can even custom make clips if you need it...but you won't. I have found that Federal brass is the best fit for the TK moonclips that come with the 929 and I have had NO problems with extraction that were moonclip related...only powder related. Now I use Federal brass, TK moonclips and N320 powder and my 929 runs flawless at 138 PF.

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The brass binding issue in the 929 as with any other revolver is the lack of a completly smooth and burr free internal finish. But the defining factor for the 929 is the lack of deburring and chamfer on the charging holes. The charging holes have one hell of a sharp 90 degree edge. That edge bites into expanded cases. Then another factor that is a smaller contributor is the Titanium itself. Like Aluminum it oxidizes when exposed to air. So exposed titanium will passivate a rougher surface barrier naturally. So to prevent the dimension changes from the phenomenon of passivating it's usually given a surface treatment. Titanium and its alloys are less dense than steel/stainless hence its light weight. A less dense material is harder to polish smooth as it is "more porous" So most titanium surfaces do not yield super polished results and that correlates into the surface treatments finish. So you end up with a more traction prone surface with Titanium than with steel alloys. The best thing to do is to have the charge holes chamfered out. Send it to a quality revolver smith for this. Titanium is a finicky metal to machine and requires sharp durable tooling such as carbide run at higher spindle speeds. It also requires a oil bath to cut as it is also a poor dissipater or of heat. It is not a novice job achieved with hand tools on the kitchen table if you know what I mean.

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Thanks again for the advice. Does anyone have any idea what would cause the extraction problem with Starline? I think they make good brass; I've used a lot of it. There must be some dimension with their 9mm brass that's different. The groove dimension would be handled by using the right moonclips, so I wouldn't think that caused hard extraction.

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks again for the advice. Does anyone have any idea what would cause the extraction problem with Starline? I think they make good brass; I've used a lot of it. There must be some dimension with their 9mm brass that's different. The groove dimension would be handled by using the right moonclips, so I wouldn't think that caused hard extraction.

Almo,

my 929 can eat everything except Starline (and ZQ1, turkish ammo), new or once or two times+ fired. I found that fired Starline case expands to 0.391 close to the base. ZQ1 expands to 0.392-0.393" (very very bad). All other headstamps expand to 0.387-8. This 0.003" makes a difference in my case. I gave up for now with Starline and switch to Winchester for USPSA and everything else for practice.

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The brass binding issue in the 929 as with any other revolver is the lack of a completly smooth and burr free internal finish. But the defining factor for the 929 is the lack of deburring and chamfer on the charging holes. The charging holes have one hell of a sharp 90 degree edge. That edge bites into expanded cases. Then another factor that is a smaller contributor is the Titanium itself. Like Aluminum it oxidizes when exposed to air. So exposed titanium will passivate a rougher surface barrier naturally. So to prevent the dimension changes from the phenomenon of passivating it's usually given a surface treatment. Titanium and its alloys are less dense than steel/stainless hence its light weight. A less dense material is harder to polish smooth as it is "more porous" So most titanium surfaces do not yield super polished results and that correlates into the surface treatments finish. So you end up with a more traction prone surface with Titanium than with steel alloys. The best thing to do is to have the charge holes chamfered out. Send it to a quality revolver smith for this. Titanium is a finicky metal to machine and requires sharp durable tooling such as carbide run at higher spindle speeds. It also requires a oil bath to cut as it is also a poor dissipater or of heat. It is not a novice job achieved with hand tools on the kitchen table if you know what I mean.

My 929 is well chamfered (by Apex) and still had sticking issues with Staline brass. No such issues with Federal brass using exact same load, even up to 140 PF.

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I'm thinking of getting back into revolver with a S&W 929. I've heard so much about brass/moonclip/extraction problems on this forum and elsewhere. The data/opinions are mixed. So, I'm naturally wary. I have a question for those who actually own a 929 and use it for USPSA type matches. If I'm willing to go out and purchase a load of brass specifically for the 929, which brand of brass would you recommend for minimum moonclip and extraction problems at a comfortable minor power factor (like 135)? I know this has been discussed at length in some form, but not necessarily specific to what works consistently for minor power factor loads.

Do not use Starline brass as it will have sticking issues. Federal brass so such issue with same loads.

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The brass binding issue in the 929 as with any other revolver is the lack of a completly smooth and burr free internal finish. But the defining factor for the 929 is the lack of deburring and chamfer on the charging holes. The charging holes have one hell of a sharp 90 degree edge. That edge bites into expanded cases. Then another factor that is a smaller contributor is the Titanium itself. Like Aluminum it oxidizes when exposed to air. So exposed titanium will passivate a rougher surface barrier naturally. So to prevent the dimension changes from the phenomenon of passivating it's usually given a surface treatment. Titanium and its alloys are less dense than steel/stainless hence its light weight. A less dense material is harder to polish smooth as it is "more porous" So most titanium surfaces do not yield super polished results and that correlates into the surface treatments finish. So you end up with a more traction prone surface with Titanium than with steel alloys. The best thing to do is to have the charge holes chamfered out. Send it to a quality revolver smith for this. Titanium is a finicky metal to machine and requires sharp durable tooling such as carbide run at higher spindle speeds. It also requires a oil bath to cut as it is also a poor dissipater or of heat. It is not a novice job achieved with hand tools on the kitchen table if you know what I mean.

My 929 is well chamfered (by Apex) and still had sticking issues with Staline brass. No such issues with Federal brass using exact same load, even up to 140 PF.

ktm400,

completely agree with you. While everything is true about polishing and chamfering (should be done anyway), it is Starline brass what gives most troubles. I have tried more than 10 different headstamps, and it was always starline expanded too much. I think it is either case design or metal specifications.

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I have been running Winchester brass with great results. I ordered moon clips from David Hearth that were made for Starline brass. After reading the binding issues being more common with Starline I decided to hold off on ordering brass and tried the Winchester I have on hand. It fits nice and tight in the moon clip with negligible wobble and I have not had any extraction problems.

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Federal brass. With TK custom moon clips.. Everything else is a waste of time and money.

You can also use Winchester brass but the high side of their tolerance on the rim is to tight.

9mm revolver is new to most people I've been shooting it for 3yrs..

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I shoot misc brass in stock TK moon clips and only have extraction issues when there has been a split case. I shoot jacketed 115 gr 90% of the time at 1175 FPS 135PF. Cylinder has been replaced by Smith .

Tom

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You can also use Winchester brass but the high side of their tolerance on the rim is to tight.

I have been doing most of my testing with *FC* headstamps for consistency. Speer and blaser are also fine.

I only tested a handful of WCC/WIN NT headstamps and they are considerably tigher in TK and dave's clips. Do you find the tightness just to be an issue as far as clipping unclipping or did you have actual functional issues with the tighter stuff?

Federals I can snap in easily with my fingers. In the 700 or so pieces I have been testing with, I found 2 that were out of spec completely, they were more like a rem, they barely clicked and simply fell out under there own weight.

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The tighter brass can hang up the reload. The brass needs a little play to load easier/faster.

My moonclips are very loved and may have some wear and I only use TKs moonclips so I can't speak to Dave's at all.

very loved meaning used alot, or sanded/dremel'd tweaked?

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Tax season... I was busy loving my moon clips... They used... A lot... I shot 400 rounds this weekend. I can tell the old ones from the new ones.

I've been shooting 8 shoot revo's since there was a rumor of the change. I used to shoot ltd 10

Don't mess with your stuff just use it.

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