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Building Speed Steel rifle


Gooldylocks

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Mine is a M&P15-22 with a Geissele trigger and a CMore railway. Mine has proven very reliable. I do have a magazine that has become suspect but I have had 10/22 magazines wear out as well so I don't really consider that a reliability issue. I have retired that mag to practice only.

I am personally most comfortable shooting the AR platform so this was the best choice for me even though I own a 10/22 as well.

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I use only factory 10 round mags for steel. My teenage son prefers the Ruger 25 round mags. The 25 round mags are a very simple design. Take them apart and spray everything with a dry lube like Hornady One Shot and they are good to go. If they get gritty at all in the coiled spring they're easy to open up and clean. With some dry lube on the plastic the follower runs in, and it gets really slick. I was ready to do some polishing if needed, but none have needed it.

A lot of extraction problems with aftermarket barrels can be cured by using a Kidd or Volquartsen extractor.

Edited by drysideshooter
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey there gooldylocks. I think you are thinking along the right lines. The cheapest route to a competitive .22 rifle for steel is the 10/22. You can start with the basic rifle and add a little at a time. In my opinion the threaded muzzle and comp are not worth the cost when it comes to rifles. You gain almost nothing. I would have said nothing but some mathematician would do their best to prove me wrong. To start, get a basic rifle and have a trigger job done. There are a few places that do an excellent job. Brimstone Tactical for one. His basic trigger is $35.00 for a crisp 2.5 lb trigger. Turn around is about 2 weeks. Kidd is another.

In my opinion eventually you need to get the weight of the rifle down to around 4.5 pounds. So this means a light barrel such as a Tactical Solutions or a Volquartsen along with a light weight stock. I went with the Blackhawk Axiom for my granddaughter. If you go with the Axiom, you will need a cheek riser to get a proper cheek weld.

For optics the most popular for rimfire steel is the Cmore but if you keep the Cmore mounted upright the Alchin 10/22 mount seems to be about perfect for the granddaughter and I.

Lastly, I don't shoot the steel challenge but I do shoot NSSF Rimfire Challenge. To my knowledge, no AR platform has ever won the NSSF Rimfire Challenge world match. I am trying to change that. I went with the AR platform because I already had an AR and it was a simple matter to slap on a TACCOM .22 upper and go.

Actually Dwight, BJ won the title in 2011 shooting an AR w/TacSol upper on it. Since then a 10/22 has won it everytime (including BJ again in 2015). Tim Ubl has helped me build a near 3 lbs AR using mostly Taccom parts built around a Mag Tech magnesium alloy lower. Still working on some issues or I would bring it out to a match. If I just drop the upper on my 3-gun lower it works great but I want to use an AR that weighs less than my relatively new ultralite 10/22.

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After the sell challenge match this past weekend my girlfriend remarked on how fun it looked to shoot an Open Rimfire carbine (we currently shoot a MKIII with volquartsen internals and a Fastfire on top). Well seeing as how rare it is to hear her say she wants a new gun, I thought I should jump at the opportunity!

So here is my question. At my club I mostly see people shooting M&P15-22's. Some have the factory flash hider, some just have the bare end barrel. All are running dots. I don't have any idea as far as what they are doing with their triggers, if anything at all. The other thing I see them doing, a lot it seems like, is having issues. Failure to eject, failure to fire, failure to feed... the list goes on.

A stock 15-22 is 417 from buds. A threaded barrel Ruger 10/22 is 275. Is there a reason more people run the AR style guns (are they faster, on average?) over the 10/22s, other than perhaps they are cross training for 3 gun? The way I look at it, I could buy the Ruger, a BX trigger, and the necessary mags (2 BX25 mags) and still be money ahead of the 15-22, and have a gun that is basically guaranteed to run. I already have a C-MORE that is gonna go on whichever one i end up with.

Has anyone used the BX trigger or magazines? I have only used the Butler creek mags, which are better boomerangs than they are magazines in my opinion. What kind of compensator would be ideal, the tactical solutions one or something different?

The sideways Cmore mount for the 10/22 would also be nice to get a good cheek weld, and lower the bore axis. Or the other option could be to pull the Fastfire off of our pistol, use it on the rifle and put a sideways CMore on there. So many decisions.

Thoughts?

I shot the 15-22 platform in every Ruger Rimfire/NSSF Rimfire World Championship from 2011 to 2014. Never finishing out of the top 30 out of on average 120 shooters, usually around 25th place. And I shot it in various steel events like the PSA Rimfire Challenge until they started allowing it in Steel Challenge. My 15-22 is about the lightest and most expensive combo (lightness and $$$ go together) I could make it including the Geissele S3G trigger, Taccom carbon fiber handguard, Allchin comp, Magpul Fixed Carbine stock, Ergo grip, and C-More red dot. Got it down to 4 lbs. 12 oz. which is about the lightest you can get it without shortening the barrel. It was 100% reliable I have to say that. But it only took me about 1 week to build a top line 10/22 that was shooting faster within a few days of building it. Only reason I did not take it to the 2014 Worlds is I did not have an idea about the reliability although it was good in the 2 weeks before I left.

Steel shooting is primarily based on reliability foremost. Once you have that you can just concentrate of developing your skills. Although I think I may be able to shoot faster still with the 3 lb AR I built I won't bring it out until it is 100% reliable with the parts I have chosen for it (and Tim still owes me the Taccom carbon fiber sleeved AR barrel as I have the alloy sleeved one on right now). That rifle actually has a 90 degree C-More on it like my pistols, due to the extremely low profile Taccom carbon fiber stock.

Dwight is correct that you can built a fairly decent 10/22 without all the expensive parts. But a 15-22 while more expensive can be shot fairly well with just a $10 set of JP springs swapped into the trigger.

As for magazines I used to shoot the big capacity mags in both my old Rem 597 and the 15-22. But eventually I realized that I was paying a penalty because the rifle weight changed over the course of a stage. I did not want that. I wanted the gun to weigh exactly the same at the start of each run. One more variable I did not have to overcome. So with the 10/22 I use 5 of the clear BX-1 mags so I can see the round count when I put it in. When using the AR now I use BDM 15 rd. smoke mags so I can see the loading and with the 15-22 I use the 10 rd short mags.

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Mine is a M&P15-22 with a Geissele trigger and a CMore railway. Mine has proven very reliable. I do have a magazine that has become suspect but I have had 10/22 magazines wear out as well so I don't really consider that a reliability issue. I have retired that mag to practice only.

I am personally most comfortable shooting the AR platform so this was the best choice for me even though I own a 10/22 as well.

Magazines are disposable items and should be for all competition shooters. I thought I liked the AR platform best also but at the time I considered the 10/22 as the Dark Side. When I won a VQ Ultralite barrel at an NSSF regional last year I built my first ever 10/22. And you know what I was immediately faster. I used a thumbhole stock to make it as much like the AR as I could and I built it lighter than the 15-22. I found it was quicker to point and transition. And at 67 YO the lighter it is the better I can shoot it. The 15-22 was 4 lbs. 12 ozs., the 10/22 is 3 lbs. 14 ozs. but my new AR is 3lbs 4 ozs. and hopefully soon to be 2 lbs. 15 ozs.(!). We will see. My Steel Challenge rifle scores went down as soon as I swapped to the 10/22 last year. Probably will help also that I will be setting up Steel Challenge stages at the farm I live at this month, one stage per month. That and a stockpile of 20k rounds of .22lr.

Edited by photoracer
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Hey there gooldylocks. I think you are thinking along the right lines. The cheapest route to a competitive .22 rifle for steel is the 10/22. You can start with the basic rifle and add a little at a time. In my opinion the threaded muzzle and comp are not worth the cost when it comes to rifles. You gain almost nothing. I would have said nothing but some mathematician would do their best to prove me wrong. To start, get a basic rifle and have a trigger job done. There are a few places that do an excellent job. Brimstone Tactical for one. His basic trigger is $35.00 for a crisp 2.5 lb trigger. Turn around is about 2 weeks. Kidd is another.

In my opinion eventually you need to get the weight of the rifle down to around 4.5 pounds. So this means a light barrel such as a Tactical Solutions or a Volquartsen along with a light weight stock. I went with the Blackhawk Axiom for my granddaughter. If you go with the Axiom, you will need a cheek riser to get a proper cheek weld.

For optics the most popular for rimfire steel is the Cmore but if you keep the Cmore mounted upright the Alchin 10/22 mount seems to be about perfect for the granddaughter and I.

Lastly, I don't shoot the steel challenge but I do shoot NSSF Rimfire Challenge. To my knowledge, no AR platform has ever won the NSSF Rimfire Challenge world match. I am trying to change that. I went with the AR platform because I already had an AR and it was a simple matter to slap on a TACCOM .22 upper and go.

Actually Dwight, BJ won the title in 2011 shooting an AR w/TacSol upper on it. Since then a 10/22 has won it everytime (including BJ again in 2015). Tim Ubl has helped me build a near 3 lbs AR using mostly Taccom parts built around a Mag Tech magnesium alloy lower. Still working on some issues or I would bring it out to a match. If I just drop the upper on my 3-gun lower it works great but I want to use an AR that weighs less than my relatively new ultralite 10/22.

I stand corrected. Pulled up some youtube of BJ at the 2011 match. Good job Racer. Either you memory is better than mine or you looked out up too. Probably the first.

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Hey there gooldylocks. I think you are thinking along the right lines. The cheapest route to a competitive .22 rifle for steel is the 10/22. You can start with the basic rifle and add a little at a time. In my opinion the threaded muzzle and comp are not worth the cost when it comes to rifles. You gain almost nothing. I would have said nothing but some mathematician would do their best to prove me wrong. To start, get a basic rifle and have a trigger job done. There are a few places that do an excellent job. Brimstone Tactical for one. His basic trigger is $35.00 for a crisp 2.5 lb trigger. Turn around is about 2 weeks. Kidd is another.

In my opinion eventually you need to get the weight of the rifle down to around 4.5 pounds. So this means a light barrel such as a Tactical Solutions or a Volquartsen along with a light weight stock. I went with the Blackhawk Axiom for my granddaughter. If you go with the Axiom, you will need a cheek riser to get a proper cheek weld.

For optics the most popular for rimfire steel is the Cmore but if you keep the Cmore mounted upright the Alchin 10/22 mount seems to be about perfect for the granddaughter and I.

Lastly, I don't shoot the steel challenge but I do shoot NSSF Rimfire Challenge. To my knowledge, no AR platform has ever won the NSSF Rimfire Challenge world match. I am trying to change that. I went with the AR platform because I already had an AR and it was a simple matter to slap on a TACCOM .22 upper and go.

Actually Dwight, BJ won the title in 2011 shooting an AR w/TacSol upper on it. Since then a 10/22 has won it everytime (including BJ again in 2015). Tim Ubl has helped me build a near 3 lbs AR using mostly Taccom parts built around a Mag Tech magnesium alloy lower. Still working on some issues or I would bring it out to a match. If I just drop the upper on my 3-gun lower it works great but I want to use an AR that weighs less than my relatively new ultralite 10/22.

I stand corrected. Pulled up some youtube of BJ at the 2011 match. Good job Racer. Either you memory is better than mine or you looked out up too. Probably the first.

I was there and watched him. When he had the famous "mulligan" they allowed at that match he started using Mark's AR conversion instead of his (same setup, TacSol upper). No rules about swapping guns in those days. In fact I swapped my 15-22 for my AR conversion between Day 1 and Day 2 of the 2012 Ruger WC.

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https://www.magnumresearch.com/MLR-Rifle-Stocks/Magnum-Research-Glacier-Ridge-22-LR-Ambidextrous-Thumbhole-Stock.asp

Anyone have any experience with the Magnum Research Glacier Ridge stock? From what I read about it on Rimfire Central it works great with the C-More mounted on the Allchin mount.

I do. Both my main and backup 10/22s have those stocks on them. They seemed about as light as they could get but I am considering punching out the material in the center of the shoulder stock just to trim a little more off. My 10/22s w/optic weigh between 3lbs 8oz and 3 lbs 14 oz. I actually use the heavier one because it has an all metal Timney trigger which I like. Has a VQ Ultralite barrel, Allchin Mount, and C-more with a 16 MOA dot.

I have been using 90 degree mounts since late 2009 on my rimfire and centerfire pistols. But recently I realized one thing. That is with the sight window being lower you have to raise the gun higher to see the dot. Not a big deal in centerfire where you are drawing from a holster but in rimfire, from the low ready, it means you have to raise the gun higher to get it to your eye. As a result I am thinking about setting up my other Bucknark with a conventional mount to see if their is any perceived difference in things like first shot time and such.

Edited by photoracer
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Hey there gooldylocks. I think you are thinking along the right lines. The cheapest route to a competitive .22 rifle for steel is the 10/22. You can start with the basic rifle and add a little at a time. In my opinion the threaded muzzle and comp are not worth the cost when it comes to rifles. You gain almost nothing. I would have said nothing but some mathematician would do their best to prove me wrong. To start, get a basic rifle and have a trigger job done. There are a few places that do an excellent job. Brimstone Tactical for one. His basic trigger is $35.00 for a crisp 2.5 lb trigger. Turn around is about 2 weeks. Kidd is another.

In my opinion eventually you need to get the weight of the rifle down to around 4.5 pounds. So this means a light barrel such as a Tactical Solutions or a Volquartsen along with a light weight stock. I went with the Blackhawk Axiom for my granddaughter. If you go with the Axiom, you will need a cheek riser to get a proper cheek weld.

For optics the most popular for rimfire steel is the Cmore but if you keep the Cmore mounted upright the Alchin 10/22 mount seems to be about perfect for the granddaughter and I.

Lastly, I don't shoot the steel challenge but I do shoot NSSF Rimfire Challenge. To my knowledge, no AR platform has ever won the NSSF Rimfire Challenge world match. I am trying to change that. I went with the AR platform because I already had an AR and it was a simple matter to slap on a TACCOM .22 upper and go.

Actually Dwight, BJ won the title in 2011 shooting an AR w/TacSol upper on it. Since then a 10/22 has won it everytime (including BJ again in 2015). Tim Ubl has helped me build a near 3 lbs AR using mostly Taccom parts built around a Mag Tech magnesium alloy lower. Still working on some issues or I would bring it out to a match. If I just drop the upper on my 3-gun lower it works great but I want to use an AR that weighs less than my relatively new ultralite 10/22.

Actually, Dwight I don't use the comp on the rifle for muzzle flip or recoil reduction reasons. I use it because some rifles without a comp will often not register a round on the timer (depends on the brand and setting on a particular timer). I have called a goodly number of those in matches and forced reruns by other shooters and have called a few on myself if the run seemed too fast. That is the main reason behind John Allchin's rifle comps. In fact in the 2013 event we got onto a rifle stage where it appeared that the RO was not checking as to whether some peoples shots were registering on the timer so I gamed the stage by removing the Allchin comp off my 15-22 just in case I got a non registering round at the end of the run. I put it back on for the next stage. BJ uses the steel comp that TacSol makes for the 1911 conversion on the end of his 10/22 because he likes the more forward balance it gives the rifle when shooting. I have one in my collection that I have used on my pistols to see what effect it had but I never left it on for more than about a month. I use the Allchin pistol comp on my Buckmark because it reduces muzzle flip using MiniMags and keeps the dot in the window better.

Edited by photoracer
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I do. Both my main and backup 10/22s have those stocks on them. They seemed about as light as they could get but I am considering punching out the material in the center of the shoulder stock just to trim a little more off. My 10/22s w/optic weigh between 3lbs 8oz and 3 lbs 14 oz. I actually use the heavier one because it has an all metal Timney trigger which I like. Has a VQ Ultralite barrel, Allchin Mount, and C-more with a 16 MOA dot.

I have been using 90 degree mounts since late 2009 on my rimfire and centerfire pistols. But recently I realized one thing. That is with the sight window being lower you have to raise the gun higher to see the dot. Not a big deal in centerfire where you are drawing from a holster but in rimfire, from the low ready, it means you have to raise the gun higher to get it to your eye. As a result I am thinking about setting up my other Bucknark with a conventional mount to see if their is any perceived difference in things like first shot time and such.

I'm glad I made a good choice then. I received my stock on Monday and will shoot with it this weekend. Right now my 10/22 is setup as follows:

Glacier Ridge stock

Stock barrel

Ruger BX trigger (Have stock trigger group at Brimstone getting tier 1 trigger job done)

TandemKross or Kidd auto bolt release

Bill Striplin 90 C-more mount

C-More with 12 MOA dot

I'm thinking once I replace the barrel and get the trigger group back from Brimstone I should be set. Do you have any suggestions on a barrel?

Regarding the 90 degree mount versus standard mount - It will be interesting to see what your test results show. I am extremely pleased with the 90 degree mount from Bill Striplin. I run it on my 10/22 and 22/45.

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Look for one weighing under a pound such as a Volquartsen or a Kidd ultralite.

Looking at the published weights online only the Volquartsen is under a pound but I don't know that a few ounces in barrel weight would really make that much difference in my game at my current skill level. The Tactical Solutions X-Ring barrel is advertised at under a pound. I saw those on eBay for $250 for threaded model and under $200 for non-threaded.

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Look for one weighing under a pound such as a Volquartsen or a Kidd ultralite.

Looking at the published weights online only the Volquartsen is under a pound but I don't know that a few ounces in barrel weight would really make that much difference in my game at my current skill level. The Tactical Solutions X-Ring barrel is advertised at under a pound. I saw those on eBay for $250 for threaded model and under $200 for non-threaded.
Other light weight choices to look at would be the whistlepig, magnum research, and hopefully soon, the taccom. I don't think the Kidd is as light as the others, I have read several places that it is about 18, maybe 20 oz.

The taccom should be released any day now and the specs should be the same as their AR22. 10 oz carbon threaded barrel for just over 200 bucks.

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Look for one weighing under a pound such as a Volquartsen or a Kidd ultralite.

Looking at the published weights online only the Volquartsen is under a pound but I don't know that a few ounces in barrel weight would really make that much difference in my game at my current skill level. The Tactical Solutions X-Ring barrel is advertised at under a pound. I saw those on eBay for $250 for threaded model and under $200 for non-threaded.
Other light weight choices to look at would be the whistlepig, magnum research, and hopefully soon, the taccom. I don't think the Kidd is as light as the others, I have read several places that it is about 18, maybe 20 oz.

The taccom should be released any day now and the specs should be the same as their AR22. 10 oz carbon threaded barrel for just over 200 bucks.

Definitely a good choice if it is available.

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Depending on whether you use a comp or not I think the TacSol alloy barrels fall in the same weight class as the VQ Ultralite and the Kidd Ultralite because they don't use the amount of SS that those do. My backup 10/22 with an unthreaded TS barrel weighs a little less than my main gun that has a comped VQ Ultralite. Pics if they come thru properly.

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.magnumresearch.com/MLR-Rifle-Stocks/Magnum-Research-Glacier-Ridge-22-LR-Ambidextrous-Thumbhole-Stock.asp

Anyone have any experience with the Magnum Research Glacier Ridge stock? From what I read about it on Rimfire Central it works great with the C-More mounted on the Allchin mount.

I do. Both my main and backup 10/22s have those stocks on them. They seemed about as light as they could get but I am considering punching out the material in the center of the shoulder stock just to trim a little more off. My 10/22s w/optic weigh between 3lbs 8oz and 3 lbs 14 oz. I actually use the heavier one because it has an all metal Timney trigger which I like. Has a VQ Ultralite barrel, Allchin Mount, and C-more with a 16 MOA dot.

I have been using 90 degree mounts since late 2009 on my rimfire and centerfire pistols. But recently I realized one thing. That is with the sight window being lower you have to raise the gun higher to see the dot. Not a big deal in centerfire where you are drawing from a holster but in rimfire, from the low ready, it means you have to raise the gun higher to get it to your eye. As a result I am thinking about setting up my other Bucknark with a conventional mount to see if their is any perceived difference in things like first shot time and such.

Well after going back to the upright C-More for a couple of matches I have decided to go back to my horizontal mount. For one thing with the laydown C-More mounts you can see the barrel thru the optical window which makes point shooting Smoke and Hope easier especially on the stop plate. Or point shooting any closeup plate to me. Works for me anyway so my Bearcave mount will go back on the Browning in time for the side match at the PSA Shootout this week. Not sure what dot size I am going to use because sometimes they have targets as small as 1.5".

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  • 2 weeks later...

Put the 6 MOA dot on for the PSA Shootout side match. Finished in 2nd on Thursday in the rimfire pistol. Went back to the 16 MOA dot as soon as I got home. Since switching to the big dot my SC scores have been steadily moving down. I got down to multiple 2.01 runs with the rifle in S&H and 2.22 with the pistol on 5/2/15. Before making the change my rifle scores were no better than about 2.50 and my pistol was around 2.8. Have not setup the range at my farm location as yet. I am pretty sure that will make a big difference also. But I am not going to set up S&H but instead the ones I have trouble getting down to around 10s flat like 5 To Go. Right now all I have are monthly matches since I can't practice SC. As long as I keep getting faster, even at my age, I figure I am on the right track. But I need to work on the physical part also. Still don't know why I am faster with the rifle. My teammate Mike S consistantly shoots S&H in the mid 7s range with both firearms while I have not been below 8s with the rifle or 9s with the pistol.

Edited by photoracer
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I have had a few people ask me about that on the Browning forum on RFC. Only thing I see is the weight issue. Someone once told me, right or wrong, that there was a short run of those with a carbon fiber barrel on them I think. Not sure who made the barrel. Only person I know who has made CF barrels for the Browning is Scott and that was the 14" CF barrel for the Buckmark Silhouette Unlimited. That won't fit the rifle as it uses a different shape to the area where the barrel and the frame meet. I think I saw Mike Gallion was using one of those barrels on a Buckmark in SC a couple of years ago.

Edited by photoracer
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  • 4 weeks later...

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