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Building Speed Steel rifle


Gooldylocks

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After the sell challenge match this past weekend my girlfriend remarked on how fun it looked to shoot an Open Rimfire carbine (we currently shoot a MKIII with volquartsen internals and a Fastfire on top). Well seeing as how rare it is to hear her say she wants a new gun, I thought I should jump at the opportunity!

So here is my question. At my club I mostly see people shooting M&P15-22's. Some have the factory flash hider, some just have the bare end barrel. All are running dots. I don't have any idea as far as what they are doing with their triggers, if anything at all. The other thing I see them doing, a lot it seems like, is having issues. Failure to eject, failure to fire, failure to feed... the list goes on.

A stock 15-22 is 417 from buds. A threaded barrel Ruger 10/22 is 275. Is there a reason more people run the AR style guns (are they faster, on average?) over the 10/22s, other than perhaps they are cross training for 3 gun? The way I look at it, I could buy the Ruger, a BX trigger, and the necessary mags (2 BX25 mags) and still be money ahead of the 15-22, and have a gun that is basically guaranteed to run. I already have a C-MORE that is gonna go on whichever one i end up with.

Has anyone used the BX trigger or magazines? I have only used the Butler creek mags, which are better boomerangs than they are magazines in my opinion. What kind of compensator would be ideal, the tactical solutions one or something different?

The sideways Cmore mount for the 10/22 would also be nice to get a good cheek weld, and lower the bore axis. Or the other option could be to pull the Fastfire off of our pistol, use it on the rifle and put a sideways CMore on there. So many decisions.

Thoughts?

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Goldylocks,

You may want to look into the Ruger SR 22. It is an AR platform with the 10-22 receiver/barrel set up.

I bought one and sent it off to CT-Precision in Connecticut for the "full trigger treatment" for $189.00. They reworked the chamber and the complete trigger and jeweled the bolt. Best money I have ever spent with a gunsmith. It out performs all of the 22's out there.

I have a Burris red dot with a quick release mount and it came with an adjustable stock which is ideal if you both plan on shooting it. It also is great practice if you shoot an AR in any type of competition.

It came with the threaded barrel and a rail on the receiver for any type of sight mount, and it can be reconfigured like most AR's on the market today. Check one out. It is the best of both worlds.

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Most guys around my way shoot the 15-22s but I can't understand why either. I have been shooting a 10/22 for a few years at SCSA matches. Runs great and no problems. I have a Volquartsen trigger in it that is under 2lbs. I recently bought a 15-22 on a whim. Been messing with the trigger and I cannot even get it close to the Volquartsen without getting light strikes or just total failure to fire. So far I really am not impressed with the 15-22. Even with the Volquartsen trigger in my 10/22 I still have less money in it than the stock 15-22. In the 10/22 I only use Ruger mags. I have tried a few other brands and every one has had major feeding issues. For steel I just use the 10 round Rugers since they always seem to run. I run a Cmore railway on both the 10/22 and 15-22. I have also tried other brands of red dots and nothing is as bright or work as well as the original Cmores. Just my 2 cents.

Edited by scottlep
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Thanks for the help everybody. Has anyone used the BX trigger? I would like the Volquartsen drop in, but it's more than double the price of the BX.. or has anyone used the competition hammer and sear set that I see floating around instead of one of the drop ins?

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I got my V trigger group on e$ay. There are TG2000s on there right now for well under $200 ;) The TG2000 I am currently running is under 2lb trigger pull. The BXs are advertised double that pull weight, but I have never tried one myself.

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Before I had the Volquartsen group in my 10/22 I had one of the Hornet Black Max trigger groups. I actually loved the Hornet trigger, it was also around 2lbs, but it was single stage with zero slack. Since my 8 year old also shoots some steel matches with me I felt better about him using the Volquartsen since it is 2 stage and has a little bit of slack.

Edited by scottlep
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Hey there gooldylocks. I think you are thinking along the right lines. The cheapest route to a competitive .22 rifle for steel is the 10/22. You can start with the basic rifle and add a little at a time. In my opinion the threaded muzzle and comp are not worth the cost when it comes to rifles. You gain almost nothing. I would have said nothing but some mathematician would do their best to prove me wrong. To start, get a basic rifle and have a trigger job done. There are a few places that do an excellent job. Brimstone Tactical for one. His basic trigger is $35.00 for a crisp 2.5 lb trigger. Turn around is about 2 weeks. Kidd is another.

In my opinion eventually you need to get the weight of the rifle down to around 4.5 pounds. So this means a light barrel such as a Tactical Solutions or a Volquartsen along with a light weight stock. I went with the Blackhawk Axiom for my granddaughter. If you go with the Axiom, you will need a cheek riser to get a proper cheek weld.

For optics the most popular for rimfire steel is the Cmore but if you keep the Cmore mounted upright the Alchin 10/22 mount seems to be about perfect for the granddaughter and I.

Lastly, I don't shoot the steel challenge but I do shoot NSSF Rimfire Challenge. To my knowledge, no AR platform has ever won the NSSF Rimfire Challenge world match. I am trying to change that. I went with the AR platform because I already had an AR and it was a simple matter to slap on a TACCOM .22 upper and go.

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I have the Ruger BX trigger but I have yet to install it. Initial impression is that it's not that much better over the stock trigger. I got some other goodies for my 10/22 recently so one day soon I'll install them all. My current setup is a completely stock 10/22 that I bought for $189 on Black Friday, C-More with sideways mount from Bill Striplin (GREAT product), and Kidd auto bolt release. This setup works very well. I thought about the 15-22 but there is so much aftermarket support for the 10/22 that it just made sense to me to go that route. (It helps that my brother owns 3 and my son has one).

Regarding triggers - I have heard very good things about the Brimstone trigger jobs or another option is the Kidd drop in trigger kit. Yes it's more expense than the Brimstone job but there's virtually no waiting for it either :). I will most likely put the BX trigger that I bought in the backup 10/22 and buy a Kidd trigger for my primary one. One thing I did invest in was extra magazines. I have 5 of the 10-round mags and 5 of the BX-25 round mags. I load them the night before the match and then I don't have to worry about loading them again during the match.

Finally if you're really into the AR look but want to run 10/22 parts check these kits out from Nordic Components (https://nordiccomp.com/product/ar22-kit-with-mid-length-nc1-hand-guard-and-adj-butt-stock/)

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After reading your post I'll throw something else out there. In my opinion you would be better served with the Cmore on the pistol with a 90 degree mount and put the Fastfire on the rifle. TACCOM markets a mount made by Bearcave Machine. Alchin is coming out with one but I don't know when. The only negative I have heard with the Fastfire is some of them have a wandering zero. Just something to keep an eye on.

Good luck and have fun. Your girlfriend will have a blast. Just like with my granddaughter, it will cost you though. All I can say is, money well spent.

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Thanks for all the advice everybody. I had been reading that the BX trigger was 2.5-3, which seemed pretty good but a couple of reviews I found were saying the real pull weight was closer to 4 pounds (not that much of an improvement). The Hornet Black Max seems like a pretty sweet deal, has a sub 2.25# guarantee and zero take up.

We haven't had any issues with our Fastfire, it has held zero perfectly well and is pretty low to the gun, I just thought I would try the Cmore with Bearcave would be nice cause of the larger glass and dot size.

I had thought about getting the Allchin vertical mount instead of the Striplin 90 degree, but wasn't sure if a consistent cheek weld could be had using the factory stock (until we get a fancier one). Of course a cheek riser/stock bag isn't hard to come by...

I have seen people that have free floated the factory stock and pulled the barrel band off (some bed the action and first 1-2" of barrel) and claim substantial gains in accuracy. Has anyone attempted this?

Good luck and have fun. Your girlfriend will have a blast. Just like with my granddaughter, it will cost you though. All I can say is, money well spent.

She likes shooting steel a lot more than she likes USPSA, and I figure it gives us one more reason to go to the range!

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And to be completely honest, part of my superficial reasons for wanting a threaded barrel/compensator is so the RO isn't hovering right over my head to pick up the sound. The comp should make it loud enough so they don't have to hover, right? And so that there are no sights on top of the gun. Superficial and probably really dumb, I know....

I jut checked Bimart and they sell the Ruger 10/22 standard version (black and synthetic) for 219, about 189 on sale he said. For stainless it is a bit more, but still only like 210 on sale. That is really cheap. Maybe I could get over the sights on top of the gun for that much savings (over 60 dollars).

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I'm really glad this thread popped up. I was just about to drop the coin on a Volq trigger for the old stainless Ruger 10/22 International that I'm going to start using for Steel. I'll be shooting the Irons division, and love the Williams peep with fiber optic bead that I put on it last week. Tonight was going to be its first match. I drove all the way out there after working all day to find that the match had been canceled. I need to start checking my email more throughout the day.

Anyway, now I just ordered the Hornet Black Max based on these recommendations!

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You have a point about the comp making it loud enough for the timer. If you are planning on going with an aftermarket light barrel later, it's extra cost you might not really use.

One of the advantages of the Cmore's larger lens on the pistol is the pistol is the harder of the two in which to acquire the dot. The 90 degree mount helps on the pistol even more. With the rifle, as soon as you hit your cheek weld you should be lined up and have the dot. Put the better optic on the harder gun.

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I run a 10/22, BX25 mags C-more, Timney billet trigger group, aftermarket thumb hole stock with the stock barrel.

I can attest it's very full floated. Stock is for a bull.

Nicely balanced.

Check the barrel weight of the stock weenie barrel against the bull aluminum ones.

Unless you go carbon it's pretty much a wash.

I couldn't justfy the cost/weight for the carbon.

Maybe down the road....

It's a super fun steel gun!

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You have a point about the comp making it loud enough for the timer. If you are planning on going with an aftermarket light barrel later, it's extra cost you might not really use.

One of the advantages of the Cmore's larger lens on the pistol is the pistol is the harder of the two in which to acquire the dot. The 90 degree mount helps on the pistol even more. With the rifle, as soon as you hit your cheek weld you should be lined up and have the dot. Put the better optic on the harder gun.

I am not sure (granted, I have shot approximately zero steel matches with a rifle) that I would go to a lighter barrel, the listed weight of a stock 16.5" 10/22 is 4.3 pounds as it stands, which seems like it would swing pretty fast. I agree on the pistol dot thing, I'm working on getting some of the parts for a USPSA open gun and decided to go Cmore over Deltapoint for the extra glass size.

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The only gain you'll find from a comp on a .22lr rifle is a louder report for the timer. If you get a CED 7000, it will pick up the report without a comp... and you won't have to deal with the extra weight on the end of the barrel.

What I did--and what I recomend--is to go with a KIDD build along with a Boyd's Evolution stock. Regarding the trigger job, if you get the less expensive KIDD trigger, it works fantastically.

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Check the barrel weight of the stock weenie barrel against the bull aluminum ones.

Going with an aluminum sleeved barrel instead of the factory standard barrel will save you about 6.5 oz. The Axiom stock will lighten it another 8 oz.

If you decide down the road to go lighter, this is something to consider. Also keep in mind that weight taken off the front of the gun effects swing more than weight taken off the back.

Now with all that said the stock weight standard model 10/22 with few modifications served me well at the 2013 Ruger Rimfire World Championships.

I guess what I am saying is once you are fully in the game and feel you want to go another step, there are a plethora of options.

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We have a number of shooters with both the 15/22 and super light 10/22s. The fastest shooter we have uses a 15/22, but the margin is pretty slim. The cost difference between the 15/22 and the 10/22 is going to be minor once you start doing upgrades.

If you go the 10/22 route, i would suggest using the 10 round mags, they seem to be more reliable, imho. The super light barrels and axiom stocks are a must have....at the point you want to be running with the top shooters. Most of these rifles are in the 3 to 3 1/4 lb range including optic. Its a combination of many factors that make this desirable, such as reduced overswing and that most people aren't body builders so the lighter the gun is the faster they can move it around.

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We have a number of shooters with both the 15/22 and super light 10/22s. The fastest shooter we have uses a 15/22, but the margin is pretty slim. The cost difference between the 15/22 and the 10/22 is going to be minor once you start doing upgrades.

If you go the 10/22 route, i would suggest using the 10 round mags, they seem to be more reliable, imho. The super light barrels and axiom stocks are a must have....at the point you want to be running with the top shooters. Most of these rifles are in the 3 to 3 1/4 lb range including optic. Its a combination of many factors that make this desirable, such as reduced overswing and that most people aren't body builders so the lighter the gun is the faster they can move it around.

How can the cost difference be negligible, when the base model of one is doubly expensive? also, has anyone tried a beyer barrel? What other ultralight stocks are out there?
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Anyone know what the definition of a "rifle" is as far as Steel Challenge goes?

Reason why I ask is someone showed up to one of our matches with an AR with only a 4" barrel. Has the paperwork since it's considered a rifle by BATFE standards (shoulder fired with a shorter than 16" barrel). Amazingly light and seemed to work pretty well. Can't get much lighter than that for a barrel. With it so short it was amazingly fast to transition with as well.

Not sure what they would do at a national/world level match with that? Below is the USPSA Multigun rule, but if it starts as a rifle, and has a shorter barrel put on it, it's not technically considered a pistol according to BATFE.

2.1.2.1 Handguns with shoulder stocks and/or fore grips of any kind are prohibited. Rifles and Shotguns
must be fitted with a stock, enabling it to be fired from the shoulder.
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Anyone know what the definition of a "rifle" is as far as Steel Challenge goes?

Reason why I ask is someone showed up to one of our matches with an AR with only a 4" barrel. Has the paperwork since it's considered a rifle by BATFE standards (shoulder fired with a shorter than 16" barrel). Amazingly light and seemed to work pretty well. Can't get much lighter than that for a barrel. With it so short it was amazingly fast to transition with as well.

Not sure what they would do at a national/world level match with that? Below is the USPSA Multigun rule, but if it starts as a rifle, and has a shorter barrel put on it, it's not technically considered a pistol according to BATFE.

2.1.2.1 Handguns with shoulder stocks and/or fore grips of any kind are prohibited. Rifles and Shotguns
must be fitted with a stock, enabling it to be fired from the shoulder.

I was wondering about that as well, because I saw some 5 or 6 inch ultralight barrels designed for use on the charger, so what if you put one of those on a rifle, and SBR'd it with the ATF? Would it be considered cheating, or evolution?

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