Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

PPC practice with limited ammo


cptgabriel

Recommended Posts

Hello every one,

I'm reading this forum from a long time and I see there it's a lot of experienced shooters with PPC background.

About six months ago I started a routine which consists in daily dry fire ( I simulate for a few time 48 shots matches, paying atention to firm grip, breathing, front sight) and , at most , once on a week, I run a full 48 shots match.

Any suggestions for training regime it will be highly appreciate since I see a limitation in 465 - 470 score from 480.

Best regards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For Dry Fire -

Find your most stable and comfortable way to do each position. Practice getting into that position quickly and consistently.

All movements of the body are directed by the mind. Concentrate on what you want to happen. In this case, that will be to keep the sights exactly lined up with each other on target through the shot. If you focus on this main thing, your body will learn to do whatever it takes to make that happen. It will do what the mind tells it. Your front sight in the rear notch will tell you how well you are doing.

For Live Fire -

Work on each position separately. Find where you have to aim for an X at each position. For example, on right barricade I use a neck hold and aim in the middle of the neck. For left hand barricade I have to aim at the left edge of the neck or shots will be to the right in the 10 or 9.

There is more, of course, but if you can truly master the basics you will have good scores and be consistent.

Best Wishes -

Warren

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All movements of the body are directed by the mind. Concentrate on what you want to happen. In this case, that will be to keep the sights exactly lined up with each other on target through the shot. If you focus on this main thing, your body will learn to do whatever it takes to make that happen. It will do what the mind tells it. Your front sight in the rear notch will tell you how well you are doing.

That's golden advice that Warren gave me when I started. If you are doing it right you will be physically and mentally tired in only 50 to 100 rounds of live fire.

Edited by toothguy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with the Tool Guy but i think you really need to get a Master or High Master shooter to watch you in all your shooting positions because bad habits are very hard to break, PPC is alive and well in Michigan, Taylor Pistol Club had over 400 shooters this year (mostly civilian shooters) look up M.P.C.C.A. on line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mojo1

It is hard to have someone watching because there are really very few PPC shooter here, in fact I'm in charge with PPC spreading over the cou ntry ( Romania, Europe ) :D. Also in Europe PPC is alive and well ( still) mostly in Germany, Austria and Sweden. There are also European Police and Fire Games where there is some PPC shooting . Usual we shoot ISSF matches but my shooting club is also IDPA affiliated .

As you see I'll have to struggle my way up to highmaster by myself ! :D

Toolguy

Last live training I've done like you said, I split whole matches in series of 6 shots observing the target. At 3 meters/8 sec it's a large hole in X, 7 meters - all in X, 15 meters there are some flyers ( about 2, 3 in 9's), at 25 there are more flyers ( usual from shooting with my left hand/left eye - shots are going in the right side of the target).

I don't know if I 'll be able to aim at neck, I use a center mass hold.

I have a Colt Python 6" stock except the grip and a Weihrauch Hunter 3" ( you call it Windicator I think ) . Python hasn't got the perfect double acton trigger and the Weihrauch grip looks a bit to little fro my hands.

Now I'm looking at a Smith Wesson 19 , 2'5" hoping that is easier to upragde ( grips , spring kit , etc ).

toothguy

Indeed I digging here for more gold like that so if you have further ideas don't hesitate to spread them.

Thanks a lot and good luck!

Edited by cptgabriel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have to have a sight rib with special sights to do a neck hold at 25 and 50 yards (meters). With a Python you will need to hold left of center mass for the left barricade. I am using a Wichita rib. Those are hard to come by now. You can get an Aristocrat Tri - Set rib from Brownell's Gunsmithing Supply.

The model 19 (K frame) is a good gun, but I would go with a 686 (L frame). The K frame will eventually split the barrel at the bottom of the forcing cone. Then you will need a new barrel. The L frame won't do that. Your Python speed loaders will fit the L frame too.

If you want good accuracy at 50 with light wadcutter loads you will have to get a faster twist barrel than original (18-3/4 inches per turn). A 1 in 10 to 1 in 14 will work nicely. I prefer the 1 in 10. If you want to use the original barrel you can shoot a hotter load to get good groups at 50.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if you can get the 19 get it, with the liter loads for PPC (690 to 750 fps) you will never split your forcing cone if its cut right, i know of K frame PPC guns with over 100,000 rounds without any forcing cones splitting, if you were shooting action pistol then i would go with the L frame, i think Jim at Aristocrat can ship to you if you want his rib.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it 'll be more expensive to upgrade my Colt than buying a specialised tool from a German top tuners .

Most of them are using SW platform in L frame or 1911 for bottom feeder .

Right now I don't want to spend a lot of money for such a highly specialised revolver as I don't know for sure how much PPC shooting will be there. Indeed, every months it's a PPC contest in Europe but I can't afford more than 1 maybe 2 trip in another country for shooting per year.

So , for moment I should stick with what I allready have but I keep my mind open even for a semi auto.

As I already told you I'm limited at one live training per week with just 50 rounds because my budget for shooting it so tight.

This is the main reason why I'm looking at 48 shot matches ( http://www.wa1500.org/course%20of%20fire.htm#special%20course%20of%20fire,%2048%20rounds ) for ammo shortage both for practice and competition.

It's looks like I should continue with my daily dry fire practice focusing on advice you give it to me but I'm not sure if , in live practice, should I run the whole match or make series of shots from 15 and 25 meters ?

Next week I will take part at our monthly PPC game and I hope to broke 470 barrier.

mojo1

By serial number my Python is made in 1968, I payed 600 Eur for it two years ago, it was nearly mint state .

Here is a picture, please don't look at that horrific holster :)10354166_727710173932858_314608110883162

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... With a Python you will need to hold left of center mass for the left barricade. ..

I'm afraid to do this because from six shot with the left hand 50% will go in right part of nine but the others will land in 10's :(

Edited by cptgabriel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's one nice looking Colt, it would be nice to get Jerry Moran or Mike Delaney (The Snake was his nick name) to do a Action job on it, they were so smooth you couldn't tell if the cylinder was open or closed,you should check out some of the PPC Guns that the big boys are running here in the States, that gun of yours is a good $1600.00 dollar gun if not more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking at finding a patridge front sight and a wider notch rear sight .

But , for now , I'm focusing more on the indian than the arrow.

In another word I try to compensate whatever need of better equipment arise trough proper technical and mental preparation :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

And practice more at the 50ym line. Once you step back to the 25y line the target looks enormous.

Practising the actual match isnt really that useful either. Figure out where you're losing points and practice only on those segments. No point in wasting ammo at 3 and 6y. When I was practicing PPC, I could spend an entire range session only shooting one single string, or even a single position, for hundreds of rounds.

However, there's probably only so far you'll get if you dont have anyone to practice with. It might be worth saving up the money to take a class from Neil Jones, or someone else. In the long run in might save you money....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I practice with dry fire on a daily bases and feel it help, but I have to find my rhythm and recoil control during live fire.

Shooting only one string may be the ticket I guess.

Tomorow is range day and I'll shoot the entire match for a verification for the Saturday match, but next week I'll try to make a test : shooting from 25 m one single shot till I'll be able to shoot only 10's.

After this achievement I'll try shooting strings of six.

What do you think?

PS. Do I mentioned I'm shooting with 3" barrel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shooting just 10s isnt really that important. Figuring out what works and what doesnt, is.

I tested gripping with different pressure, different hand positions on the barricade, different body positions on both sides of the barricade, shooting faster and slower.

Just test the shit out of things, to find what works. :)

Also, when you practice, dont worry about holding off to shoot all 10s. Practice aiming for the center/neck and make sure you shoot nice groups. With more training and finding the right positions, you'll soon be able to hold in the center for everything, so practice "the right way" and then just hold off at matches.

When I started shooting PPC I had to hold off quite a bit, especially left barricade, but also sitting (at 50y). After a while and a decent amount of practice, I was able to hold center/neck even at 50y.

Btw, Ralf and Sylvia are good friends of mine, so if you ever head out that way or decide to get something from them, say hi from me :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gose

You are truly right!

A few days ago I have done a kind of test. I shooted fire by fire , drawing from holster from 15 and 25 meters. Every single shot was a 10's.

But , when I begin to shoot series of six ... :(

Today was the contest day, my worst score ever.

I organized till now 3 PPC competitions in 48 shoots matches my score is going down constantly 473 , 457 and today 431 .

Next week I want to practice from 50 and 25 meters shooting series of six , observing etc.

I just don't know what is wrong but I wont' give up!

Also I want to change my Colt Python with a Smith Wesson 686 ( 6 " barrel) and upgrade it with a spring kit and maybe a new grip ( Hogue ? ).

PS I talked with Ralf Merkle last year at Backnang. In fact I was talking with his son and he started to laught when I was asking for some speedloadres for my Weihrauch ( Windicator) revolver. After all I understand now why he was laughing :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gose

You are truly right!

A few days ago I have done a kind of test. I shooted fire by fire , drawing from holster from 15 and 25 meters. Every single shot was a 10's.

But , when I begin to shoot series of six ... :(

Today was the contest day, my worst score ever.

I organized till now 3 PPC competitions in 48 shoots matches my score is going down constantly 473 , 457 and today 431 .

Next week I want to practice from 50 and 25 meters shooting series of six , observing etc.

I just don't know what is wrong but I wont' give up!

Also I want to change my Colt Python with a Smith Wesson 686 ( 6 " barrel) and upgrade it with a spring kit and maybe a new grip ( Hogue ? ).

PS I talked with Ralf Merkle last year at Backnang. In fact I was talking with his son and he started to laught when I was asking for some speedloadres for my Weihrauch ( Windicator) revolver. After all I understand now why he was laughing :D

Or get a decent semi ;)

The 48 round matches are much easier with a pistol than with a revolver.

Edited by gose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Id probably pick a CZ SP 01 over the two you mention. I started out with a Glock 17, but had a hard time getting much over the low 470s with it, so I switched to a SIG 210-2, which helped quite a bit :)

I assume youre still allowed to start with chamber empty in Europe? If so, I wouldnt bother with anything other than a SA or SA/DA pistol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't mention Glock please! :)

I was so happy when I sold my G34 gen 4. CZ is affordable here and there are some parts available, but revolvers for me looks different.

A few days ago I was practicing for the first time a 48 shots match with Windicator it is room for improvement but I like his trigger better than Python's.

Next week I will start to practice from 50 y and 25 y lane.

Also I ordered from Brownell's some Jetloaders, spring kits and a Hogue grip to upgrade that SW 686 which I'm gonna change with my Python.

I'll try to put some pictures here.post-57815-0-72651200-1425711678_thumb.j

PS. Any suggestions you have will be appreciated.

post-57815-0-16554000-1425711854_thumb.j

Edited by cptgabriel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I shot ppc as a high master, I shot 50 rounds a day 5 days a week. All were shot from the 50 yard line. In the middle of the week I added a couple of 25 yard unsupported stages. If you want to get better try that. I saw a suggestion to use "Kentucky windage" above. Don't do it! Practice!

Edited by captain037
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could be sure I'll do that and thanks a lot!

But 5 days a week on shooting range is quite impossible for me unfortunately, so I try 50 rounds on 50 yards and 20 rounds on 25 yards lane once a week :(

PS. What is "Kentucky" ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kentucky windage would be aiming right of the x ring when your group is on the left side of your target or anything like that. Aim where you want the bullet to strike. The exception would be adjusting your sights for a neck hold at the 50 so the bullet strikes the x. That is a precise aiming point not an estimation.

Yes, if that is all the practice time you have try that for a while without the timer. If you don't develop proper sight alignment and trigger squeeze taking your time, you never will under time. You still need to shoot a practice match under time every couple of weeks but I personally would rather only shoot 20 rounds at the 50 and have them be all x's and 10's than 24 rounds with misses. If you shoot 50 rounds at the 50 with no timer, concentrating, you will he tired but you will start to see improvement. The x will look like a trash can lid at the 25.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...