Stage Questions for NSSF Match Directors

[ZackJones]

Curious to know what kind of mix of stages you run at your matches. For example at our match last month we ran 3 stages and shot the same stages with pistol first and then rifle. For rifle we usually moved the shooting box back. Do you run your matches like that or do you have pistol only and rifle only stages?

The format we used worked pretty well but with the way the shooting positions were arranged you couldn't let a shooter shoot through with their rifle while we were shooting pistols because we had the barrels on either side of the pistol shooting box. Granted we could move them if needed. For our next match I'm thinking about mixing things up a bit by having separate shooting positions for pistol and rifle but not require us to move the barrels. I've been watching some YouTube videos to get ideas for setting up stages but would appreciate any advice/tips you have to pass along about running an NSSF match.

[joninwv]

At our matches we typically shoot rifle and pistol from the same position at the same targets. Sometimes we use extra targets that are rifle only at greater distances. Using the same position saves the movement and keeps the match running smoothly. Anything you have to reset/move/paint just slows things down.

I have never really understood why people want to make the rifle stages harder than the pistol ones? I've been to several bigger regional matches and the rifle stages where much harder than the pistol ones. Why? If you make the targets smaller, then people miss....and the golden rule is 90% of the people hit the target 90% of the time. Put them further away, the same thing happens. The worst, is when you spread them out far apart, which imho makes the stage more dangerous as new and inexperienced shooters can over-swing, or actually lose control of the firearm. It also seems like spreading the rifle targets out falls more into the category of....its a rifle its supposed to be harder....mentality. I say, make the rifle stages simple, and straight forward, just like the pistol ones (or use the exact same stages for both).

People love to shoot fast! Let them do it

[ZackJones]

I appreciate the feedback. I sent an email to everyone that shot our first match asking for feedback and two things stood out: 1 - more targets and 2 - more stages. I plan to accommodate both at our match this month.

[Alan550]

I appreciate the feedback. I sent an email to everyone that shot our first match asking for feedback and two things stood out: 1 - more targets and 2 - more stages. I plan to accommodate both at our match this month.

Zack,

How many targets are you using on a stage? We're just getting started here in VA, and from what I've read, there should be between 3-7 targets on a stage. I had also planned on using the same stages for rifle & pistol with longer-range shooting boxes for the rifles. Good idea or not?

I'm pleasantly surprised at the response I've gotten already and our first match isn't until the end of March! Glad you posted this question, as it had been in the back of my mind as well since we're new at this particular game. I look forward to other responses from experienced MDs.

Alan~^~

[joninwv]

Keep in mind there is a limit to the number of targets per stage....I believe its 7. Even though the maximum is 7, I would tend to keep it at 5 or so, to let more guns be competitive and prevent slowdowns in the match from reloading.

If you have a couple of folks show up with tube fed rifles or double action revolvers, you will soon regret having lots of targets per stage

Edited February 12, 2015 by joninwv

[MarkCO]

The rules are 5-7 targets, 8" minimum size. The minimum distance is 21 feet and the maximum distance is 60 feet for pistol and 105 feet for rifle.

Have you read the MD guide? http://www.nssf.org/Rimfire/files/MatchDirectorGuide_2013_Final.pdf

For the Worlds, I have separate pistol and rifle stages. Many of the stages from 2013 Worlds are the example stages on the NSSF RFC website.

Remember, NO reloads allowed now, so if you decide to make a stage really fast or a little technical, stay with the 5 or maybe 6 targets. You can also add a bonus target on Rilfe shooting from the same position to equalize the challenge between rifle and pistol.

While RFC is not dogmatic, you do owe it to your shooters to keep the stages in line with the design principles of the sport. If you want to do something unique, call it a side match and score it separately...RFC is not outlaw, just user friendly.

[Alan550]

Thanks for the link, Mark!

I'd already read the NSSF web site but missed that part for some reason. I guess as a side match we'll run a stage I saw on here somewhere to a stage called "Just A Second" where there were 2 18"x24" targets set about 3' apart with a 10" stop plate set between them a little further away. The idea was to double-tap the 18"x24" targets and hit the stop plate, hence the name of the stage. I didn't remember that they require at least 5 targets in a "regular" stage, but you're correct!

As I said in my earlier post, we're just getting started and trying to draw new and experienced shooters to the game, so I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle in this instance. The 90%-90%-90% rule will be in effect here to keep 'em coming back.

Thanks again to you & Zack for your input, even though you had no idea a "lurker" was reading every post!

Alan~^~

Edited February 12, 2015 by Alan550

[MarkCO]

No worries and no secrets. The main reason I am involved in RFC is because I see it as THE path to bring new shooters into the competitive action shooting sports. Low barriers to entry, fun and family oriented. Anything to help people run safe, consistent and fun matches is good for all of us.

As a side note, we are hoping to be able to open registration for Worlds next month. 2nd weekend of October, Old Fort Gun Club in Ft. Smith Arkansas.

[ZackJones]

How many targets are you using on a stage? We're just getting started here in VA, and from what I've read, there should be between 3-7 targets on a stage. I had also planned on using the same stages for rifle & pistol with longer-range shooting boxes for the rifles. Good idea or not?

For our first match we ran 5 targets per stage to keep the round count at 150 minimum for the match. Based on feedback we'll be adding at least another stage and some more targets for our next match. The problem we had with using two shooting positions is having to move stuff around after we finished shooting. We all shot the stages with pistols and then went back and shot with rifles.

[ZackJones]

If you have a couple of folks show up with tube fed rifles or double action revolvers, you will soon regret having lots of targets per stage

I'm glad you mentioned this as I was talking with a shooter that said he wanted to shoot but only had a tube fed rifle. I told him to not let that hold him back. Do you, or anyone else, have any advice for dealing a tube fed rifle? When I had a Marlin some time ago I used a FatDonalds straw as a speed loader which would help speed up the loading process but what about unload/show clear at the end of the stage? I was thinking about some sort of tray he could just dump what's left in the tube into?

[ZackJones]

I guess as a side match we'll run a stage I saw on here somewhere to a stage called "Just A Second" where there were 2 18"x24" targets set about 3' apart with a 10" stop plate set between them a little further away. The idea was to double-tap the 18"x24" targets and hit the stop plate, hence the name of the stage.

Funny you should mention that. I was looking that up last night. What I saw was the 2 18x24 rectangles and a 12" plate but all of them were aligned in a row. The shooting box is 21" away. In fact I made a screen capture from a YouTube video I was watching. I'll post it up tomorrow morning as I don't have access to it right now.

I'm thinking about running it as one of our stages at the steel challenge match since it's not a legal stage for NSSF but I seriously doubt anyone would care if we ran it as part of the NSSF match.

ETA attachment for stage setup.

Edited February 13, 2015 by ZackJones

[joninwv]

Tube fed rifles can be ok, especially if the shooter has some "speed loaders" for them. There are commercial ones, but a mcdonalds straw (they are bigger around) or a large aluminum knitting needle with the cap popped off work really well too, and are cheaper. Load the rifle all the way up, shoot a couple of strings, and then reload 10 or so rounds for 2 more strings, then reload one more time for the final string. You just have to have ROs that know to count rounds in case someone fires more than 11 rounds (which results in a score of 30).

My experience and advice will be different from others here as we run rimfire shoots every thursday evening during the summer and then once a month or so on Saturdays. That's a lot of shoots to run and a lot of shooters. So, I've done everything I can to organize as efficiently as possible to ensure that everything runs smoothly and quickly. Our shooters appreciate being able to complete the course of fire quickly, because then they can go through a second or even a third time. More shooting, less waiting

[Dwight Stearns]

If the range allows, you can get creative by moving the rifle box to the side as well as back. Many times this totally changes the stage without moving the targets.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Dwight Stearns

[danjordan78]

We had someone use aluminum arrow shafts cut to length and corks to cap them . 22 rounds fit right in them. Between every other stage she pulled her tube, dumped in an arrow full of rounds, and stuck the tube back in. Worked awesome!

[Strip]

At Club matches - I always set up 5 stages, with 5 targets. I do not move the box or targets. I allow people to shoot with pistol only, rifle only, or both if they want to save some ammo. I score the guns individually to accommodate. I use 3/8 plates and allow centerfire handguns as well. I generate a lot of people in this way and our club matches usually average 50 or more. The way I see it, the more versatility I can add to my club match the more people I can get hooked on the game. I do not advertise my Monthly club match as an NSSF match because of these deviations. but a whole lot of NSSF shooters show up for it, As well as ladies wanting some extra practice with their CC gun. Of course these ladies usually become NSSF shooters once I put my Buckmark in their hands.

[ZackJones]

We score using PractiScore so I'm not sure how I would be able to score the match accurately if someone elected to not shoot all of the stages. So far we run a total of 6 stages per match. We setup 3 and shoo those 3 with pistol and rifle. Our last match we did mix thing up a bit and run 3 targets on one stage and 7 on another. We also shot the stages from the same shooting position. Other than the rain and cold weather we've had for our first two matches they have been well received. I have been enjoying shooting rimfire so much that I took the Trijicon RMR from my M&P Core and put it on my open Ruger 22/45.

[Strip]

Sorry, I will clarify as I use Practiscore as well. We set up 5 stages and shoot all 5 stages with up to 3 different guns for a total of 15 stages if you count it like you do. However, I set up practiscore with all conventional divisions and add Rim Open Rifle, Rim Lim Rifle, Rim Open Pistol, Rim Lim Pistol. I then have shooters to register and squad for each division they shoot. In this way, all guns are scored separately. You can see what I mean if you look at the scores at http://www.oldfortgunclub.com/organized-shooting-sports/steel-challenge/2015-match-results/march-steel-2015/. Those who shot multiple guns are listed multiple times.