9 major bullet casting

[Chris iliff]

I just don't know ANY person shooting 9 major using anything over 124gr bullets.

I did read somewhere that THE GREAT ONE, Rob Leatham preferred 135gr bullets in open, but he isn't really competing in open anymore.

I use 124gr bullets. EVERYONE I know shooting 9 uses 124 or 115. EVERYONE.

SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A LITTLE LOCAL THING GOING AND ONE OR TWO OF YOUR SHOOTERS USE 9 and shoot 147 gr bullets.

Is this the case? Is it one or two shooters and you are getting just their opinion? Or are you getting the opinion of thousands of shooters? In the USA, we can generally get any powder and maybe running the 124 and 115 gr bullets are easier for us?

Is there a powder problem where you live? Can you generally get the powders that run the 124 and 115 gr bullets to 9major power factor?

Look, there are thousands and thousands of guys shooting and if 135gr and 147 gr bullets were the answer in 9 major, it would be used WIDELY. IT SIMPLY IS NOT.

If you can get the powders to run 9 major using 115 or 124 gr jacketed bullets. Do that. Forget the 135 and 147 gr idea. If it was the answer, shooters and gun builders would be recommending it. THEY ARE NOT.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Chris iliff

[kneelingatlas]

That data came from the Hodgdon website, I thought it would be useful since it listed the pressure. If we're talking about gas for the comp I can defer to my own load data collection for 9 major.

Same powder, same PF, 135gr, 124gr, 115gr, 7.1, 7.7, 8.9 charges respectively. More power generally means more gas, the more effective the comp.

[Ryan626]

I believe Ibeji Heads makes 124 grain coated heads for Open guns as he made the alloy extra harder than usual. Contact the owner and he can answer your questions for you. He uses it himself for his open gun and Ive seen a good shooter use it as well and keeps ordering. I believe this is the link below.

http://ibejiheads.com/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=36

DVC

[jayjay1]

No cast bullets in pistols with compensators, because they will shave of some lead every shot.

That´s what I´ve learned.

[Jimboajubejube]

Really appreciate the help guys. I am going to stick to 124 gr. for me it is easy to get. I guess for some it comes down to personal preference, i personally want to use a bullet such as the 124gr to be on a good competing platform against the other shooters. as for casting rounds, I will leave that for standard 9mm ammo i use to shoot steel challenge as opposed to using it for 9 major.

[Guest]

Using lighter bullets with a compensator has advantages due to more gas and typically has less muzzle flip as has been discussed. However, lots of folks have shot a crap ton of 135gr -150ish grain lead bullets out of 38 supers at 175+ powder factor. I used lots of 135-150 grain hard cast bullets and they actually shoot pretty well. Yep, there was comp leading but cleaning your compensator was just another skill/chore that was part of the game. Wear on the barrel with the lead bullets was minimal. Never had to replace a barrel due to wear until I got a real job and could afford to shoot jacketed bullets. I also think that shooting the heavier bullets were easier on the guns in general.

Looking that the specs for S221, it looks like it is around N350 in burn rate and has a bulk density similar to AA#7. That is a good combination and looks like a good candidate for an open powder to work in the 9mm case w/ light or heavy bullets. Also, you have the advantage of making major at 160pf for IPSC Open so that helps.

Personally, I like to use 115/124grain MG jacketed bullets and think they work very well. However, about a year and half ago I was trying to conserve my "good" MG bullets and loaded up some old 135gr LSWC's. Shot them for a couple months and they worked fine. Leading wasn't horrible, but there was more smoke.

I'd say try what you want and see what you think. Maybe your local club guys are onto something.

Part of the enjoyment of the game is the quest.

Just don't invest a bunch of money into 147grain bullets.

[Jimboajubejube]

Using lighter bullets with a compensator has advantages due to more gas and typically has less muzzle flip as has been discussed. However, lots of folks have shot a crap ton of 135gr -150ish grain lead bullets out of 38 supers at 175+ powder factor. I used lots of 135-150 grain hard cast bullets and they actually shoot pretty well. Yep, there was comp leading but cleaning your compensator was just another skill/chore that was part of the game. Wear on the barrel with the lead bullets was minimal. Never had to replace a barrel due to wear until I got a real job and could afford to shoot jacketed bullets. I also think that shooting the heavier bullets were easier on the guns in general.

Looking that the specs for S221, it looks like it is around N350 in burn rate and has a bulk density similar to AA#7. That is a good combination and looks like a good candidate for an open powder to work in the 9mm case w/ light or heavy bullets. Also, you have the advantage of making major at 160pf for IPSC Open so that helps.

Personally, I like to use 115/124grain MG jacketed bullets and think they work very well. However, about a year and half ago I was trying to conserve my "good" MG bullets and loaded up some old 135gr LSWC's. Shot them for a couple months and they worked fine. Leading wasn't horrible, but there was more smoke.

I'd say try what you want and see what you think. Maybe your local club guys are onto something.

Part of the enjoyment of the game is the quest.

Just don't invest a bunch of money into 147grain bullets.

Yes the s221 is the std powder here in RSA for open. every single open shooter uses it so i will stick to that powder. I haven't got my Trubor in my possession yet, our licensing system takes months to issue the license and every firearm has to have a new separate license applied for separately, only once you have the actual license card can you then take possession of the gun. (It takes 3 months for a single sports license for a particular gun, 6 Months for a self defense license ) anyway, My plan is to just start with 124 gr, oal 1.130" and 7 gr s221 moving up from there until factor.

[kneelingatlas]

My plan is to just start with 124 gr, oal 1.130" and 7 gr s221 moving up from there until factor.

Good plan

My only suggestion would be to experiment with longer rounds and see how they feed.

[Jimboajubejube]

My plan is to just start with 124 gr, oal 1.130" and 7 gr s221 moving up from there until factor.

Good plan

My only suggestion would be to experiment with longer rounds and see how they feed.

well for that what i have done is found a method to measure the max oal of the gun:

use a rod that basically fits the barrel of the gun (i'm cheap so i use my primer tube which fits well). completely close the action and put the tube down the barrel all the way to the breach face, mark that point on the tube at the end of the barrel. Then i take out the barrel and put a bullet head in it until it touches the rifling and hold it there gently with a rod or something. Insert the tube again and mark the point where it stops against the bullet head. This gives the max oal of the gun.

[kneelingatlas]

You might want to figure out what variance you get out of your press so that the longest round you load clears the rifling.

[GrumpyOne]

My plan is to just start with 124 gr, oal 1.130" and 7 gr s221 moving up from there until factor.

Good plan

My only suggestion would be to experiment with longer rounds and see how they feed.

well for that what i have done is found a method to measure the max oal of the gun:

use a rod that basically fits the barrel of the gun (i'm cheap so i use my primer tube which fits well). completely close the action and put the tube down the barrel all the way to the breach face, mark that point on the tube at the end of the barrel. Then i take out the barrel and put a bullet head in it until it touches the rifling and hold it there gently with a rod or something. Insert the tube again and mark the point where it stops against the bullet head. This gives the max oal of the gun.

Or you could just use an unsized case with a bullet stuck in it (long) feed it into your barrel, pushing it down till it stops....then that is where the lands start, measure that and subtract .010...but even that is a moot point....your mags are what really matters.

[Glk21C]

Info about 9major OAL from Beven Grams, found in an older post:

· First off, I have always recommended a max over-all-length for 9x19 of 1.175", for a STI mag with spacer plate installed. You can have a variance of +or- .005" on this measurement. This measurement is allowing for the variance in manufacturing tolerances of the tubes themselves. This is in no way meant to say it is the best for your gun, it is just the max that will fit inside the mag without having problems. Any particular gun can be tuned to run on much shorter factory length ammo for that matter, but in the most part, the longer the better for powder volume and making major power factor. Running an OAL between 1.160" and 1.175 usually works for everyone, in the average off the self mag tube with spacer plate installed.

[Jimboajubejube]

does the trubor mag come std with a spacer when the gun is bought? i can't remember seeing one. I thought that they were just 38 super mags

[Mo Zee]

does the trubor mag come std with a spacer when the gun is bought? i can't remember seeing one. I thought that they were just 38 super mags

I'm pretty sure yours will be super mags. 9mm Major springs and spacers are few and far between here in ZA. I suppose the 2 dealers may be able to bring those in for you albeit a bit of a wait.

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[bmiller]

No cast bullets in pistols with compensators, because they will shave of some lead every shot.

That´s what I´ve learned.

Why wouldn't you have the same problem with jacketed? It sounds like your comp is mis-aligned. I have shot some coated bullets through comped pistols, and a bunch through ARs. In my .223, as fast as 2700 fps.(gas checked ) I have several 300 blk guns that have never seen a jacketed bullet. I fired 700 .223 rounds at 2200 fps without cleaning to see if I had lead buildup in the bcg. It was dirty because of the powder, but no lead build up. I prefer powdercoated bullets to hi-tek coated for higher velocity. If the coating is scratched leading will happen. Just my opinion.

[Jimboajubejube]

does the trubor mag come std with a spacer when the gun is bought? i can't remember seeing one. I thought that they were just 38 super mags

I'm pretty sure yours will be super mags. 9mm Major springs and spacers are few and far between here in ZA. I suppose the 2 dealers may be able to bring those in for you albeit a bit of a wait.

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Hey Mo Zee. surely i can just use the 38 super mag? why would they send me a 38 super mag if i could not use it for 9x19?

[Mo Zee]

Yes super mags will work, depending on OAL. you will have to play around with that once you get your gun.

I have SPS mags that I use in both, my super and 9 major guns without any change.

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[Glk21C]

STI makes one size tube for 9mm and 38 super. If you don't use a spacer in the back of the mag you run the "potential" of the 9mm rounds getting "behind" the forward control rib, thus causing feeding problems. Rear spacer moves the round just far enough past the forward control rib to prevent this from happening. Now, do some have success without spacers running 9mm in STI mags? Yes, but it is hit and miss.

Good luck

[Jimboajubejube]

STI makes one size tube for 9mm and 38 super. If you don't use a spacer in the back of the mag you run the "potential" of the 9mm rounds getting "behind" the forward control rib, thus causing feeding problems. Rear spacer moves the round just far enough past the forward control rib to prevent this from happening. Now, do some have success without spacers running 9mm in STI mags? Yes, but it is hit and miss.

Good luck

Thanks will do my best to get them working with out spacers etc. Worst case i will have to get spacers

[Jimboajubejube]

Yes super mags will work, depending on OAL. you will have to play around with that once you get your gun.

I have SPS mags that I use in both, my super and 9 major guns without any change.

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What overall length do you use for 9mm in order to get the mag to feed reliably?

Edited February 5, 2015 by Jimboajubejube

[Mo Zee]

Don't know of hand, but I went as long as possible.

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[Hi-Power Jack]

Yes super mags will work, depending on OAL. you will have to play around with that once you get your gun.

What overall length do you use for 9mm in order to get the mag to feed reliably?

You'll have to set your OAL yourself - can't use anyone else's.

Run The Plunk Test, and see how long your chamber/mags

will work with - back if off a bit, and you're all set to go.

You'll have to recheck (Plunk Test) every time you change

bullets (not just weight, but also design, shape or mfgr).

[Mo Zee]

STI makes one size tube for 9mm and 38 super. If you don't use a spacer in the back of the mag you run the "potential" of the 9mm rounds getting "behind" the forward control rib, thus causing feeding problems. Rear spacer moves the round just far enough past the forward control rib to prevent this from happening. Now, do some have success without spacers running 9mm in STI mags? Yes, but it is hit and miss.

Good luck

Thanks will do my best to get them working with out spacers etc. Worst case i will have to get spacers

Spacers and springs with followers, you need both of them.

IIRC, the STI has 2 thinnish ribs and the SVI/SPS run 1 broad rib. I have not used STI mags but what Glk21C says makes perfect sense.

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[BeerBaron]

I think you mentioned you are in RSA? If so frontier metal processing is there and they make an excellent 124gn RN CMJ. It's perfect for what you want and will shoot nice and clean. They also make a 147gn RN CMJ (I've used them in my production gun) so you could try those if you want.

I agree keep the home cast pills for your other guns and shoot cmj or jhp in your open gun.

[ickus]

Go with Berrrys 124gr Hollow Base, Round Nose, Tick Plate... Best Open Gun bullet.. It's worth it ( 124 HBRNTP )