9 major bullet casting

[Jimboajubejube]

Hey all,

I am thinking of staring to cast bullets to reduce the price of my shooting. I know that this is a good idea for the sport shooter with a standar gun, however I will soon be shooting IPSC open division. I am going to use an STI Trubor chambered in 9x19 Major pf. What BHN hardness should I be looking for in the lead in order to not deform the bullet from the pressure, nor cause leading in the barrel and comp?

On a side note: it would be much appreciated if someone could give me an oal that ,from experience, runs reliably through a Trubor in 9 major. I am going to use a 147 grn bullet with medium burning powder (called s221 in my country RSA).

[Nghthwk1911]

Just as a matter of opinion, I would not use a 147gn projectile for open. I have only started shooting open in the last 6 months, but the over whelming consensus is for 124 or 115 projectiles, and almost all use Copper jacketed. Some use coated projectiles, but again 124 or 115 grain with the slow burn powder.

[Jimboajubejube]

Just as a matter of opinion, I would not use a 147gn projectile for open. I have only started shooting open in the last 6 months, but the over whelming consensus is for 124 or 115 projectiles, and almost all use Copper jacketed. Some use coated projectiles, but again 124 or 115 grain with the slow burn powder.

As far as i have been told the 124 and 115gr are best for 38 sc, however for 9 major 147gr is best, because it reduces wear and tear and the dot does not lift as much when shooting. Also here i South Africa we are restricted in open to not using below 120gr. Are you using .38 super or 9 major?

Edited February 4, 2015 by Jimboajubejube

[Racinready300ex]

I wouldn't run any more than a 125 for 9 major.

I've just started shooting open too, I'm running 125's for major. So far I've shot a couple thousand MG - CMJ's. I've done some testing with blue bullets to save money and I'm probably going to switch to them and see how it goes once I run out of MG's. I wouldn't shoot plain lead.

[Nghthwk1911]

How about that, IPSC has a 120gn min weight for major... good to know.

[Jimboajubejube]

I wouldn't run any more than a 125 for 9 major.

I've just started shooting open too, I'm running 125's for major. So far I've shot a couple thousand MG - CMJ's. I've done some testing with blue bullets to save money and I'm probably going to switch to them and see how it goes once I run out of MG's. I wouldn't shoot plain lead.

why would you not run more than 125gr? What are the advantages of 124 to 125 gr? Will it not ware out the gun quicker?

[Glk21C]

Lighter bullet will need more powder than a heavier one. With the proper slower burning powder, more powder = more gas to work the T1 comp on your Trubor.

Hope that helps.

[Nghthwk1911]

I don't understand the "wear out the gun" item... You still need to make PF 160+ in IPSC Open Division. But shooting a 124/5gn projectile at 1400fps(173pf) is easier to get to then moving a 147gn projectile at 1100fps (161pf). just saying.

[superdude]

You'll likely get more muzzle rise (dot movement) with the 147 grain bullets than lighter bullets. You might find this of interest: http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/power-factor-recoil-bullet-weight-compensators/

[Jimboajubejube]

Thing is that everyone tells me something different. I was told what you guys are saying on other forums, but then people shooting 9 major at the range tell me a completely different story with 147 gr etc etc. Not to say either is necessarily wrong.

Anyway, with 124 gr (which is easy for me to get and cost effective) using a medium burning powder, what OAL would be best? also will i encounter alot of powder spilage when reloading?

[Jimboajubejube]

You'll likely get more muzzle rise (dot movement) with the 147 grain bullets than lighter bullets. You might find this of interest: http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/power-factor-recoil-bullet-weight-compensators/

Thanks for the article, so in a standard gun, a heavier bullet = less powder and therefore less recoil, however a comp reverses this so that a lighter bullet with more powder and gas = more gas redirected out the comp therefore reducing muzzle lift.

[Foxbat]

Thing is that everyone tells me something different. I was told what you guys are saying on other forums, but then people shooting 9 major at the range tell me a completely different story with 147 gr etc etc. Not to say either is necessarily wrong.

Anyway, with 124 gr (which is easy for me to get and cost effective) using a medium burning powder, what OAL would be best? also will i encounter alot of powder spilage when reloading?

Spillage is minimal with AutoComp or HS-6, plenty of room left in the case, with 124gr bullets.

[Jimboajubejube]

Thing is that everyone tells me something different. I was told what you guys are saying on other forums, but then people shooting 9 major at the range tell me a completely different story with 147 gr etc etc. Not to say either is necessarily wrong.

Anyway, with 124 gr (which is easy for me to get and cost effective) using a medium burning powder, what OAL would be best? also will i encounter alot of powder spilage when reloading?

Spillage is minimal with AutoComp or HS-6, plenty of room left in the case, with 124gr bullets.

what would the OAL have to be then? I know 9mm 1.169" is the max OAL for 9mm in general. Would the OAL for the Trubor in 9 major exceed this?

[Glk21C]

Shouldn't have too

[Nghthwk1911]

It will depend on the profile of the projectile, but for my Trubore I load Berry's 124gn FPHB to an OAL of 1.150.

[Jimboajubejube]

I will be loading CMJ Restrike 124gr RN

[Foxbat]

It will depend on the profile of the projectile, but for my Trubore I load Berry's 124gn FPHB to an OAL of 1.150.

About the same here.

[kneelingatlas]

1.150-1.170

[Jimboajubejube]

Thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it!!

[Jimboajubejube]

It will depend on the profile of the projectile, but for my Trubore I load Berry's 124gn FPHB to an OAL of 1.150.

Do you have any insight into the wear and tear of the gun from the pressures using 124gr?

[jmcqueen]

I have cast and coated bullets for open and limited. After casting and coating and baking two coats of coating it looks like Berry and Bayou type bullets are no more costly and it only takes one bad bullet to ruin a good match. Uncoated in open is a mess. I will sell you my casting equip. if you want to try it.

[Jimboajubejube]

I have cast and coated bullets for open and limited. After casting and coating and baking two coats of coating it looks like Berry and Bayou type bullets are no more costly and it only takes one bad bullet to ruin a good match. Uncoated in open is a mess. I will sell you my casting equip. if you want to try it.

Thanks for the offer man, looks like i probably wont be casting anymore due to all the advice from various forums. The only thing i have done towards casting is i bought a burner lol will probably use it for something else.

[kneelingatlas]

Let me start by saying I'm not a physicist by trade (a sprinkler fitter actually) so I don't actually know the answers to these questions, but I have some moronic ideas I'd love to flesh out with the rest of the Enosphere

the dot does not lift as much when shooting.

First off, I'm not sure this is true. I've never shot 9 major with 147s but I have shot it with 135s, 124s and 115s; I found the heavier the bullet the softer, bouncier the gun shot, whereas the lighter the bullet the flatter, more violent the gun felt.

for 9 major 147gr is best, because it reduces wear and tear

I found this comment intriguing, intuitively I want to agree, but I'm not sure why... My initial though was a heavier/slower bullet has less energy than a lighter/faster bullet and perhaps energy has something to do with "wear and tear". Then I though pressure is probably more closely correlated so I went to 'the book' and was surprised to find this data:



This would lead me to believe that, at least in this small relative range between 124gr and 147gr with WAC, two loads of the same PF would have exert the same pressure on the chamber. Granted these two max loads have a muzzle energy of roughly 345 ft.lb and 274 ft.lb for the 124gr and 147gr respectively.

But shooting a 124/5gn projectile at 1400fps(173pf) is easier to get to then moving a 147gn projectile at 1100fps (161pf)

This doesn't sound very scientific, do you have a more technical analysis of "easy to get going"? If a 124gr bullet is going 1290 fps to make 160 pf and the 147gr is going 1088 fps, the 124gr bullet has 458 ft.lb of energy vs the 386 ft.lb. I'm not about to say definitively that muzzle energy has any correlation to "wear and tear" but if the muzzle energy is greater, the pressure is about the same, which factor do you suspect are the greatest contributor? the force required to unseat the bullet?

[Jimboajubejube]

Let me start by saying I'm not a physicist by trade (a sprinkler fitter actually) so I don't actually know the answers to these questions, but I have some moronic ideas I'd love to flesh out with the rest of the Enosphere

the dot does not lift as much when shooting.

First off, I'm not sure this is true. I've never shot 9 major with 147s but I have shot it with 135s, 124s and 115s; I found the heavier the bullet the softer, bouncier the gun shot, whereas the lighter the bullet the flatter, more violent the gun felt.

for 9 major 147gr is best, because it reduces wear and tear

I found this comment intriguing, intuitively I want to agree, but I'm not sure why... My initial though was a heavier/slower bullet has less energy than a lighter/faster bullet and perhaps energy has something to do with "wear and tear". Then I though pressure is probably more closely correlated so I went to 'the book' and was surprised to find this data:

This would lead me to believe that, at least in this small relative range between 124gr and 147gr with WAC, two loads of the same PF would have exert the same pressure on the chamber. Granted these two max loads have a muzzle energy of roughly 345 ft.lb and 274 ft.lb for the 124gr and 147gr respectively.

But shooting a 124/5gn projectile at 1400fps(173pf) is easier to get to then moving a 147gn projectile at 1100fps (161pf)

This doesn't sound very scientific, do you have a more technical analysis of "easy to get going"? If a 124gr bullet is going 1290 fps to make 160 pf and the 147gr is going 1088 fps, the 124gr bullet has 458 ft.lb of energy vs the 386 ft.lb. I'm not about to say definitively that muzzle energy has any correlation to "wear and tear" but if the muzzle energy is greater, the pressure is about the same, which factor do you suspect are the greatest contributor? the force required to unseat the bullet?

I also have a number of questions, but as far as i have been told, the pressure behind a heavier bullet such as the 147gr is less therefore reducing the wear and tear or as i was told "does not hammer the gun as much". i can also see the the pressure is lower. I was also told from a mutual friend who shoots 9 major and has extensive experience that yes the heavier bullet will save the gun, less pressure and less powder behind the bullet, but one must make a decision; save the gun? or make that sacrifice and compete properly in IPSC using a lighter bullet.

However on the range on sunday I spoke to another person who shoots 9 major and he said that 147 gr is better for 9 major than 124 gr. This just adds to my confusion. As i said earlier i always get told something different, i even had a gunsmith who builds his own opens guns, mainly using BUL components, that heavier is better.

it seems that from your data above, that the more you increase the ft/s of the 147gr, the closer the pressure is to that of the 124 gr. The difference in pressure and velocity reduces. At the end of the day the pressure is less with a heavier bullet and will most certainly reduce the wear and tear on the gun, whether this is substantial and even worth it is another debate. I guess the more powder used with a 124 gr will create more gas and make the comp work better?

Lets assume that the pressure difference, in the maximum loads of your data, is not going to substantially increase the wear and tear. The question is then how much gas will be redirected through the comp.

[GrumpyOne]

Exactly how much more "wear" are you talking? I will bet there is no appreciable difference in the wear between the two different weights of bullets. Shoot any gun, with any weight bullet enough times, and it will wear out. Get what shoots the best for the gun and let her rip.

BTW, low weight bullet, high weight powder charge, produces more gas to work the comp. If you don't produce the gas to work the comp, all you have is a weight on the end of your barrel instead of a compensator.