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jetdriver71

To popple or not to popple

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Ok. So I'm changing my SV order to an open gun. I've been shooting limited for a while and will shoot open whenever my gun arrives. However I notice some open guns have barrel holes and some don't. I shot a bedell open for 2 years and was a B class shooter ( I now have time to work on that classification?). Anyway Bedell said he didn't see the need for popple holes all they do is require more powder and were louder. I asked about Max's gun which has 2 small holes and he said that's just what he has always had and he had a load he always used for that set up so why change.

Looking to hear some of your opinions especially from some gun smiths or some folks with some valuable feedback who shoot SV open guns.

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Why not ask Brandon at SV? He knows his guns better than anyone else and knows what his sponsored shooters use. With that said, I like 4 holes for 38 super with the SV comp.

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Yep just got an email from Brandon. He recommended 3 for my setup. After extensive testing that with the comp combo returned the dot on target faster. The new comp design allows for other tha Vit powders. The team currently using 7625. Btw anyone know where I can find some??

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Hello: They are not needed if the comp is designed correctly. Thanks, Eric

Quite a broad brush you are painting with. You basically stated that MOST of the top builders int he country are wrong.

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Hello: Not all the builders use barrel holes on their builds. When you add barrel holes you are making the barrel shorter so you need more powder to make major. By adding more powder you create more gas and you are forcing more through the holes and the comp. In turn that gives more pressure into your hands. So if the comp is designed correctly you will not need holes in the barrel so less powder and less pressure on your hands. If you have tested some of the comps you would know what I am talking about. I have tested a bunch of them. Some work well and some not so much. As for 7625 it is discontinued I believe or will be soon. Thanks, Eric

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So if the comp is designed correctly you will not need holes in the barrel

As I said, broad brush and broad brushes are rarely accurate.

Some comps are designed with popple holes in mind and work as a system. You aren't the only one who has shot and tested more than one. Again, broad brush.

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so what you're saying is holes = a shorter barrel which is going to require more powder to make major?

Well no kidding you don't say. Yes that statement is correct but what is the reason there are popples then? Is it to enhance the comps? Maybe improve gas flow? Soften the pulse? You tell me since not all barrels and comps are awesome.

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The gun has a certain balance point. If all the down pressure is applied at the very end of the gun, then you have "dolphin " effect.

Two schools of thought:

1. Run comp only, fast burning powders, no holes - basically a limited gun with a bit of compensation.

2. Run comp as a muzzle brake, use holes to vent gasses as force vectors to control movement of the gun - slow burning powders, more control over the movement of the gun, down pressure is applied closer to the middle line of the gun.

Yes, both schools work, neither is wrong, but they are different.

For us, more important than how flat the gun is or how soft it shoots is how consistent it is shot to shot. In other words, if you do a super fast split, a "double tap", at 25 yards, how close are the hits? For us, the only true measurement of an open gun is the number of "snake eyes" you get on a stage. We found that we get better results by separating the function of the compensation system. The comp is, basically, a muzzle brake. Its function is to control recoil. The holes in the barrel are designed to control the return of the gun to the same spot. Slow burning powders, more gas, give us more control. The way our system is designed, we don't lose that much velocity. Slower powders also allow for lower peak pressures and a more drawn out pressure curve, instead of a spike.

I will now return to my corner...

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Hello: They are not needed if the comp is designed correctly. Thanks, Eric

Can you show us an example(s) of a correctly designed comp?

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I think I'd go what what brandon suggested to you. I have shot a friends SVI and it has 3 holes (pretty large ones) and it shoots very nicely. My tanfoglio has 12 of them (albeit tiny ones) and in it's own way it works very well too. 2 very different guns to shoot but both perform well.

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Thank you guys for all the input. Thanks Shay for your insight into comp physics. That was awesome!

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The gun has a certain balance point. If all the down pressure is applied at the very end of the gun, then you have "dolphin " effect.

Two schools of thought:

1. Run comp only, fast burning powders, no holes - basically a limited gun with a bit of compensation.

2. Run comp as a muzzle brake, use holes to vent gasses as force vectors to control movement of the gun - slow burning powders, more control over the movement of the gun, down pressure is applied closer to the middle line of the gun.

Yes, both schools work, neither is wrong, but they are different.

For us, more important than how flat the gun is or how soft it shoots is how consistent it is shot to shot. In other words, if you do a super fast split, a "double tap", at 25 yards, how close are the hits? For us, the only true measurement of an open gun is the number of "snake eyes" you get on a stage. We found that we get better results by separating the function of the compensation system. The comp is, basically, a muzzle brake. Its function is to control recoil. The holes in the barrel are designed to control the return of the gun to the same spot. Slow burning powders.........

Shay what powders do you recommend that would work the comp and barrel with holes?

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for barrel ports and comp you want slow powders as Shay suggested. my fav is VV 3N38 (also worth trying in VV are N350, 3N37 and N105 - in my experience in that order). There's a bunch of other powders too 7625, winchester autocomp, vectan SP2 etc. but the vhit powders are very nice and among the slower of them all.

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Do you need them? I would say clearly no. Do you need to not have them? I would say clearly no. Look at arguably the top two Open shooters in the game. Max runs a Trubore with no popples. Eric's pistol has the most popples you will ever see. Clearly you can be at the top of the game with either, even at an extreme. We can talk theory all day long, and frankly I love doing it. Discuss gas dynamics, comp design, popple inclusion, slide weight, the impact of all of the above in gun movement during unlocking of the lugs vs impact of the slide against the frame at the end of the stroke, etc., etc. From purely a provable performance standpoint though I have to look at results and these say neither is the dead nuts assassin of the other.

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Neomet, except Max does run holes...

The only top level shooter I know that doesn't run any is Eddie Garcia. I Am curious if he will start running them now that he is on his own.

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He doesn't run the trubore barrel anymore either. He's been using a Bedell comp with the last port chopped off and now he's running one of Bedell's new comps. With two barrel holes.

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post-7678-0-34363000-1422363462_thumb.jp

post-7678-0-00670800-1422363471_thumb.jp

Edited by robb315

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Hello: Like I said if the comp is designed correctly you don't need barrel holes. Kinda like this one. Thanks, Eric

post-9254-0-13784900-1422367551_thumb.jp

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Thanks Rob315. I remember seeing that gun at the world shoot 2014. I talked to max just after he shot his last stage. He smoked it. Yep saw the 2 barrel holes.

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I think I'm going with Brandon's recommendations on the barrel holes (3). Now the hard part. Powder. If anyone knows where some is available that would be great. I have some 7625 left over but I thought I read Hodgdon discontinued that powder. It's no longer listed on many of the websites I've visited selling powder. Anyone had any experience, good that is, with longshot? Or VV105?

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Hello: Like I said if the comp is designed correctly you don't need barrel holes. Kinda like this one. Thanks, Eric

Well, crap. Everyone else is wrong.

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