Where to start with a 1911?

[theunloader]

Hi all,

I have an interesting question (I think...)

I normally shoot GLOCK, but I have a romantic attraction to the 1911 that I'm sure many of us have felt at some point. Recently I acquired a Springfield Armory TRP Operator with a Bull Barrel and full-length guide rod. My problem is that although I am a GLOCK Certified Armorer (that's not saying much) I have never known anything but the striker-fired, plastic anti-1911. I plan on getting another 1911 (not yet determined) to shoot USPSA Single Stack with, and I will also be using the Operator in L-10 occasionally at a local match. But like I said, Ive never dealt with a gun that had a hammer before. I'm not completely in the dark but need to learn about the 1911 platform in general. I'd like to have a healthy education from years of experience but I'd also like to get as much of a head start by reading first.

Can anyone recommend a good book(s), DVD(s), or YouTube video(s)? I have looked around myself and found some of the "1911 Build" videos to be a little useful but not too much.

Thanks guys.

[HOGRIDER]

IMO, most accomplished smiths will recommend both versions of Jerry Kuhnhausen's excellent shop manuals:

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/books-amp-videos/books/handgun-gunsmithing-books/jerry-kuhnhausen-the-colt-45-automatic-prod13805.aspx

Available through several outlets.....

Edited January 26, 2015 by HOGRIDER

[theunloader]

IMO, most accomplished smiths will recommend both versions of Jerry Kuhnhausen's excellent shop manuals:

Thanks, I'll definitely check that out. Brownells is out of stock but amazon almost never disappoints.

[Nugget]

AGI's videos are very good. Thorough step by step instruction on building and modifying the 1911.

[terrydoc]

Hi all,

I have an interesting question (I think...)

I normally shoot GLOCK, but I have a romantic attraction to the 1911 that I'm sure many of us have felt at some point. Recently I acquired a Springfield Armory TRP Operator with a Bull Barrel and full-length guide rod. My problem is that although I am a GLOCK Certified Armorer (that's not saying much) I have never known anything but the striker-fired, plastic anti-1911. I plan on getting another 1911 (not yet determined) to shoot USPSA Single Stack with, and I will also be using the Operator in L-10 occasionally at a local match. But like I said, Ive never dealt with a gun that had a hammer before. I'm not completely in the dark but need to learn about the 1911 platform in general. I'd like to have a healthy education from years of experience but I'd also like to get as much of a head start by reading first.

Can anyone recommend a good book(s), DVD(s), or YouTube video(s)? I have looked around myself and found some of the "1911 Build" videos to be a little useful but not too much.

Thanks guys.

Why not use the TRP? Ok found it

Edited January 26, 2015 by terrydoc

[45dotACP]

If you want to be competitive, you'll want either a 38 super or a 40 loaded to major. If not, I'd just shoot the TRP and have fun

[oak hill]

Welcome to the BRIGHT SIDE !

1911's and the high-cap variants rule in competition. There is a tremendous amount of info right here on Benos if you just take some time to do a couple searches related to the specific topics of interest to you.

The TRP is a great platform to start off with and I am sure you will soon be well acquainted with it.

[theunloader]

If you want to be competitive, you'll want either a 38 super or a 40 loaded to major. If not, I'd just shoot the TRP and have fun

.38 super can only be minor PF right? Is it worth giving up a point per hit? I'm a pretty competitive IDPA with my GLOCK but I'm just starting USPSA, and I know a lot of people shoot .40 so they can shoot major. The 1911 is more of a hobby.

[Mike21STI]

Youtube has a ton of videos some are much better than others

[copecowboy22]

The TRP can be competitive in L10. Since you're limited in capacity there's no down side to 45 unless you already load for 40 in limited. The whole 2 guns same ammo thing. 45 is competitive in L10 and SS.

[RJH]

Your gun would be very competitive in L10. 38 super IS at a disadvantage, and 40s&w in L10 is no different than a 45.(except for smaller holes)

[theunloader]

Thanks. So that's another question, what is the recoil difference between .40 and .45 in a 1911 for Single Stack? With my glock 34 I have almost no Muzzle flip and so tracking sights is easy. Is .40 snappier with more flip, and .45 is more of a heave?

[earthshine402]

Thanks. So that's another question, what is the recoil difference between .40 and .45 in a 1911 for Single Stack? With my glock 34 I have almost no Muzzle flip and so tracking sights is easy. Is .40 snappier with more flip, and .45 is more of a heave?

I think that is the general response on 40 vs 45.

That said, there seems to be a shift in philosophy in that more people are going with 40. Brass is cheaper, you can use the same ammo in a 2011 limited gun, and there are even some heavy bullet options out there 200, 220 gr.. Will give you a softer push recoil.

I like shooting 180s out of my limited 2011 though.

[copecowboy22]

I prefer the push of the 45. That's just the way I like it. That said I'll probably be moving everything over to 40 at some point in the future just to simplify things.

[ricardo28]

If you want to be competitive, you'll want either a 38 super or a 40 loaded to major. If not, I'd just shoot the TRP and have fun

I guess I should give up beating all those guys in SS that shoot .40 because I use .45 and somehow still beat them. And 38super is only good for Open which the OP did not talk about.

OP, I would watch every video Wilson Combat makes on YouTube. So much 1911 info, they are pretty in depth and great for 1911 beginners. Stick with the .45 until you need to go .40 for convince of reloading. So real advantage of it at the level your at. Even then, some of the best SS shooters will do just as good with .40 and .45.

[zzt]

I am not an expert on the subject, but here are my thoughts anyway. I'm not going to try to talk you out of another gun, but you may want to think about expanding your options. If you buy a 5" bushing barrel 1911 you can shoot IDPA CDP and USPSA SS with the same gun, holster and rig. The only problem with that is you are essentially duplicating what you already have. If it were me, I'd have a bushing and barrel fitted to the gun and use it that way for IDPA and SS. Then you can swap out the bushing barrel for the bull and shoot L10 if you want. If you are not in a 10 round mag state, you will be the only one shooting in L10. The money you save can go towards a pistol that will allow you to shoot Limited. That is much more fun with 20 round mags than 10, and there you definitely want a 40.

Regarding the differences between 40 S&W and 45 ACP: 40 S&W brass is a lot cheaper, and you are going to lose 120 or so every match, so it adds up. I buy 40 brass for between 3 and 4 cents each. 45 brass costs 8 cents. You will have more problems with 40 brass, because so much of it was shot in Glocks. If you go 40, get a push through resizing setup to eliminate the problem. I rarely have a problem with 45 brass.

Regarding recoil differences. Recoil in a 1911 will vary with your setup, depending on what weight recoil spring you use and how your slide firing pin stop is configured. I don't have a 1911 in 40. My 40 is a CZ 75 TS. It weighs only 2 oz more than my 1911, but the weight is out front because of the longer barrel. It helps with muzzle rise.

No matter how you slice it, the 40 S&W is going to recoil less than a 45 ACP when loaded to the same powder factor. Since powder weight is part of the recoil equation, the 40 using less powder produces less recoil. My Major 40 load takes 3.7grs of powder vs. 5.0 for the 45.

Edited to correct mistake. I meant to say firing pin stop, not slide stop.

Edited January 30, 2015 by zzt

[theunloader]

If I fit a standard barrel and bushing, which I don't have a problem doing (I'd rather save the money), I can still put the bull barrel in right? I won't ruin the fit of the bull barrel will I?

[earthshine402]

No matter how you slice it, the 40 S&W is going to recoil less than a 45 ACP when loaded to the same powder factor. Since powder weight is part of the recoil equation, the 40 using less powder produces less recoil. My Major 40 load takes 3.7grs of powder vs. 5.0 for the 45.

I think this logic is incorrect.

Powders behave differently at different pressures. 40 is much higher pressure than 45.

I think bullet velocity and weight have more effect on recoil, all personal preference. Many guys prefer slower heavier bullets for a push recoiling feeling. Others like it a little more snappy. A lot to do with your specific gun, your grip, your slide weight, and recoil and mainsprings, finding the right balance.

[copecowboy22]

I'm getting pickup brass in 40 for .02 and 45 for .05. The only time I lose more than 20 pieces is at a major.

[zzt]

Yes, you can fit a bushing barrel without ruining the fit of your bull barrel as long as you don't get anal about bushing fit. You'll be shooting competition, not bullseye, so you don't need (or want) a friction fit that requires a wrench to remove. My competition 1911 is bullseye accurate, but i can still rotate the bushing by hand.

You should check to see if your slide has the bushing cut already. Since Springfield offers the pistol with both barrels, it is likely it does. If not, it's inexpensive to fix. You also want to check to be sure you can use a conventional guide rod plug. My slide is cut for both regular and reverse.

Jason, some ranges do not allow you to pick up your brass. They want to speed things up, so if you want brass you have to wait until the end of the match to get it.

earthshine, some powders do and some don't. Clays is an example of one that doesn't. It is perfect for shotshell reloading, but not as good for pistol because it pressure spikes quickly. e3, on the other hand, works well at shotshell pressures and for 40 S&W. However, no matter how a powder performs, its weight is an important factor in recoil. I'd much rather shoot Major out of my TS in 40 than with my 1911 in 45.

Edited January 30, 2015 by zzt

[kingmedicine]

.40 is a punch, 45 is a shove.... I actually prefer 45 over 40

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I use 200 grain bullets in my 45 to get the feel of a 40. Here is another option for you is to get a 9mm single stack. You will get 10 rounds and a softer shooting gun. Downside is you will be shooting minor and will have to hit more A's but the upside is cheaper brass and you can use cheaper store bought ammo. With the 40 and 45 you can load minor also but again scored minor and the 40 has 10 round mags you can get-Tripp ones. A 180 grain 40 bullet shooting minor is pretty sweet to shoot. I think what you will find is you will end up with single stacks in 9mm, 40 and 45. I would get the 9mm if you reload that already and the 121 grain Montana Gold bullet is a nice one to reload. Putting a bushing barrel in your 45 is an option but the feel will be a lot different than your bull barrel you have now. Thanks, Eric

[JWard79]

One point that hasn't been mentioned yet is that if you go the 40 route with trip magazines & reload you can shoot major (8 rounds) and minor (10 rounds) with the same gun in single stack & shoot L10 as well. Youtube will answer most of your questions concerning modifications except trigger job. A proper trigger job requires tools & training, and unless you plan on investing the time and money it will be cheaper to have a competent gunsmith perform this job for you. Everything else can be taken care of with a few files, a little research, and patience.

The biggest issue you will have to overcome if you get a 1911 is the different grip angle from a glock. Training will help to alleviate this, but at some point you will notice that you have a grip angle preference & gravitate towards one or the other. Best practices say to stick with one gun and you will see improvement, but that doesn't mean that you can't improve while shooting both. If you are looking to improve your results stick with one gun, if you are looking to improve enjoyment whatever gets you to the range will work.

[ktm300]

The least expensive way to shoot Single Stack is 9mm. It is one division you shoot minor and come out OK. You get two extra rounds so you can have more flexibility in your stage plans and have a makeup shot or two if you need them. 9mm is less expensive to load just for bullet cost if nothing else. Using Montana Gold for example a case of 180g .40 and 124g 9mm cost about the same but you get 3750 9mm and 2500 .40. I think it's 2000 .45.

Shooting a 1911 in 9mm is a lot of fun and very easy to shoot.

For you, the least expensive thing would be to shoot L10 or fit the bushing barrel and make sure your TRP will make weight. From memory they are pretty heavy.

[PatJones]

The biggest issue you will have to overcome if you get a 1911 is the different grip angle from a glock. Training will help to alleviate this, but at some point you will notice that you have a grip angle preference & gravitate towards one or the other.

Get an arched mainspring housing, it makes the gun point higher like a Glock.