Rob Tompkins Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Anyone running an NFC at there local matches? How's it working out? Any issues? The local IDPA turn out has been dropping while other pistol sports are growing. I'm going to open this up for the next few months and see if I can't get more crossover shooters. Rule: 8.2.7. Not For Competition 8.2.7.1. IDPA encourages shooters to practice their gun handling skills with commonly carried firearms. Many everyday carry firearms do not fit into the 5 competition divisions.8.2.7.2. IDPA allows clubs to add a “Not for Competition” scoring division for Tier 1 matches only. This allows calibers smaller than 9mm, carry optics, and other pistols which do not fit into the 5 competition divisions to participate in local club matches.8.2.7.3. All other IDPA equipment rules apply for holsters and loading device holders as well as their placement on the body. Match Directors also have the option to allow junior shooters with .22 rimfire firearms to begin strings at low ready in lieu of requiring a holster.8.2.7.4. All IDPA membership rules apply.8.2.7.5. Clubs are not required to implement this provision, and Match Directors are allowed discretion with implementation so that match quality remains high. Edited January 12, 2015 by Rob Tompkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Every club needs enough shooters to show up on match day to make it worth denying non-competing members the use of those facilities during that time. If NFC brings shooters in, it's a good thing. Expect some "grumbling" from the purists... but the books have to balance or the club will stop hosting those matches -- I've seen it happen more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Single Stack Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I feel IDPA is impacting there growth potential by not being more proactive on the latest gun trends and shooter preferences. Instead of having so many production type guns not allowed for competition (NFC), the rules committee should be looking at current shooter trends and expanding legal options. As a minimum I would think the rules committe should look to reduce the restrictions in the ESP class to allow guns that are currently not legal for competition. For example given the popularity of the CZ ShadowTarget and CZ Accushadow it seems silly to restrict those guns specifically and not allow them at least in ESP. If the Tanfolio Stock II's where available in the states those would also be in high demand given the latest marketing efforts and success at the World Shoot but as per the current IDPA rules are not legal for any class. I laugh that my $2000 STI Eagle 9mm is ESP legal but my $1300 CZ Shadow Target (and $1300 Stock II if I had one) are only allowed to be used in the NFC. As I shoot across both USPSA (production class) and IDPA it seems silly to have guns that are legal in the USPSA production class but are illegal for IDPA. Give guys more options and be less restrictive and I would expect you would see more growth. The IDPA philosophy of if you do not like the rules then go find somewhere else to play is pretty short sighted if our long term goal is to grow the sport and attract new members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I've been shooting NFC at my local club. The club scorekeeper doesn't have a separate place to put me, so he was lumping me into ESP. But, everyone knew I was running illegal gear, and shooting NFC. I even had my squad start me with one PE on every stage to even things out some. But, a few guys have been complaining about it. One was mad because he would of been top ESP SS one week and ended up behind me. It was pointed out that he was the top ESP SS, as my score didn't count. But that isn't good enough. So the MD, and the scorekeeper agreed to just bump me up to Master so my score would be separate from the rest. I think in the future I'm just not going to turn in my score card. It really doesn't matter to me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 I've been shooting NFC at my local club. The club scorekeeper doesn't have a separate place to put me, so he was lumping me into ESP. But, everyone knew I was running illegal gear, and shooting NFC. I even had my squad start me with one PE on every stage to even things out some. But, a few guys have been complaining about it. One was mad because he would of been top ESP SS one week and ended up behind me. It was pointed out that he was the top ESP SS, as my score didn't count. But that isn't good enough. So the MD, and the scorekeeper agreed to just bump me up to Master so my score would be separate from the rest. I think in the future I'm just not going to turn in my score card. It really doesn't matter to me anyway. Good feedback. We use Practiscore so it'll be a simple matter to add a NFC Divison so nobody gets bent out of shape ( I hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Good luck. But that should help a lot. When I first started running NFC I ran my USPSA Revolver rig. So they put my in ESR by myself. At least one person I know of complained about it. May have been more. One of these days I will end up on his squad and I'm going to break every rule I can think of just to get under his skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Rob, there will still be a few purists that get 'bent outa shape' regardless of what division you put the NFC shooters in. But, if you do have a separate division, they can't bitch too much.... just ell 'em ..."It's the Rules. I didn't write 'em. I just have to follow 'em!" Maybe you could even grow this to " NFC Racegun" and "NFC BUG" divisions. (Or use a BUG program... or maybe 'Industry'... or some such other scoring thingy to separate the various NFCs into somewhat competitive classes). You might start making your club some serious money! AND... operating under IDPA Rules -- at least as they are stated this week. WHAT A COUNTRY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardini Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Good luck. But that should help a lot. When I first started running NFC I ran my USPSA Revolver rig. So they put my in ESR by myself. At least one person I know of complained about it. May have been more. One of these days I will end up on his squad and I'm going to break every rule I can think of just to get under his skin. NFC does have rules. 3.22.7 8.2.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afoulk Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Good luck. But that should help a lot. When I first started running NFC I ran my USPSA Revolver rig. So they put my in ESR by myself. At least one person I know of complained about it. May have been more. One of these days I will end up on his squad and I'm going to break every rule I can think of just to get under his skin. NFC does have rules. 3.22.7 8.2.7 But whining about those rules is a little pointless when you realize that the MD can simply put anyone with non-compliant equipment into a "non-idpa side match" that is comprised of all of the IDPA stages and report their scores as a separate match. For that matter, they can throw the entire rulebook away for the side match contestants if they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Per the quoted rules - at least as I understand them - the only thing relaxed for NFC is the gun and mags. All other gear rules would apply. I would expect that some accommodation might be needed for gear to accommodate a pistol, like cutouts for optics or open moon clips if IDPA compliant clips are not available. But gear placement rules still apply regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 As long as your gear is safe I don't really see the point. If your gear isn't legal and your scores don't count in the match who cares if your mags aren't in the right place. And you can see just from this thread that everyone will have a different idea of what should be allowed in NFC. That's why I won't be turning in my score cards at the end of the day anymore. Then no one will even know what I did or didn't do. I'll pay my money and poke holes in cardboard just like everyone else. But I'm going to stop worrying about when and how to reload and all that fun stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 As long as your gear is safe I don't really see the point. If your gear isn't legal and your scores don't count in the match who cares if your mags aren't in the right place. And you can see just from this thread that everyone will have a different idea of what should be allowed in NFC. That's why I won't be turning in my score cards at the end of the day anymore. Then no one will even know what I did or didn't do. I'll pay my money and poke holes in cardboard just like everyone else. But I'm going to stop worrying about when and how to reload and all that fun stuff. That is an approach that works for you and if someone showed up and wanted to use the full race rig I'd tell them their socore would not be recored since they would not be IAW the rules for NFC. If they were ok with that, no problem but if they want recorded scores they need to play by the rules such as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 We've used it a few times for allowing individual guns or calibers that don't fit in any particular division, but have not created any standing NFC divisions that we run every month. When it looked like ESR was going to disappear, the ESR guy was unhappy, so I thought we could just continue to run ESR as an NFC division every month. What if "Load your gun to physical capacity" was an every-match NFC? Popular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 As long as your gear is safe I don't really see the point. If your gear isn't legal and your scores don't count in the match who cares if your mags aren't in the right place. And you can see just from this thread that everyone will have a different idea of what should be allowed in NFC. That's why I won't be turning in my score cards at the end of the day anymore. Then no one will even know what I did or didn't do. I'll pay my money and poke holes in cardboard just like everyone else. But I'm going to stop worrying about when and how to reload and all that fun stuff. Maybe you could even grow this to " NFC Racegun" and "NFC BUG" divisions. (Or use a BUG program... or maybe 'Industry'... or some such other scoring thingy to separate the various NFCs into somewhat competitive classes). At first I thought NFC was a great advance in the game. Let people give it a try and maybe they will get compliant and really start shooting IDPA. This doesn't sound that way. Give you and inch and you want to take a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMark Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Along with other armed professionals, I have started shooting more and more NFC. We shoot the way our experience and training has shaped us. Our gear and firearms are for the most part IDPA legal. We seriously use cover (many of us have been shot at before). None of us wear colorful "NASCAR" logo shirts or gamer vest. I will often shoot wearing a dress shirt and jacket. The main thing NFC allows us to do is not concern ourselves about the number of shots we take or limiting the number of rounds in our mags. We Shoot Until The Threat Goes Down, or as an example - until we feel that whatever multiple shots have done the job. We are concern about making hits as fast as we can make those hits. NFC is the what many of us used IDPA for back in the mid 90s, a place to practice our skills. To us employing firearms isn't a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 We use NFC at our club. Quite a few shooters using it. I think it's a great way for the sport to be more inclusive and less reclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADulay Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 We have 3 to 6 guys each week who fit into the "NFC" category and they get scored accordingly. Not a big deal. The major scoring programs handle it quite nicely. They do show up on the score sheet but under their own category (NFC) or whatever I decide to call it that week. AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 DMark, just out of curiosity, what gun you are shooting in NFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMark Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Edited February 18, 2015 by DMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I had a NFC shooter beat me last match and it did not sit so well - I plan to +2 him a few times to teach him a lesson. Right Rob? Edited February 17, 2015 by Solvability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 HEY, HEY, HEY, I didn't make you shoot all the NT or commit those PE's!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 HEY, HEY, HEY, I didn't make you shoot all the NT or commit those PE's!!! You did chuckle, chortle and enjoy the mirth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Guilty as charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Never hear of IBA before, but I guess it means International Bodyguard Association. Ok, I have shot many IDPA matches with a weapon mounted light, as do many LEO shooting IDPA and USPSA in full duty gear. IDPA is a game, whats the connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Never hear of IBA before, but I guess it means International Bodyguard Association. Ok, I have shot many IDPA matches with a weapon mounted light, as do many LEO shooting IDPA and USPSA in full duty gear. IDPA is a game, whats the connection? IBA isn't "Irritable Bowel Afterburn"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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