3 Gun Nation rule changes.

[Benelli Chick]

Did the magazine length for pistol in Factory (Tac Irons) change? It states 127.25mm.

Indeed, I think it does, but luckily, according to 7.3.1.4 it says it needs to be less than 127.25 OR factory length. I think that means it can be longer than 127.25 as long as you don't add extended base pads and it comes from the factory that way!

So what is "the factory" or factory configurations? Many shooters run custom shop guns like 2011s and the like. I don't see anything that says that a $4,000 SVI couldn't be considered a factory gun.

Also, many shooters run magwells which I am pretty sure are not factory configuration. Are these legal or illegal?

What about non factory stippling or other grip modifications?

I echo what Vlad said about the rifles too. Very few would be in Factory configuration. How should an adjustable gas block be viewed since that is a feature found on very few factory guns?

I in practice I am guessing 90% of these rules will be overlooked and they will only care about a select few but there are holes in this rulebook big enough to drive a truck through.

P.S. Factory pistol should have been limited to striker and DA/SA guns in my opinion. Maybe no slide lightening and other race mods too but it's not likely to happen.

I honestly have no idea how they're going to handle all these things! It took them quite a while to publish them and they are pretty darn confusing. We (RM3G) ended up defining Factory Configuration in our rules as: Factory configuration is meant to include firearms able to be purchased by the general public and not experimental. (We have only left it in there to be clear there are no plasma guns, ice guns, whatever.) But, I'm not sure what equipment 3GN is trying to limit.

Honestly, it took me 4 readings before I understood the difference between a "grounded" firearm and an "abandoned" firearm. I would not want to be the range master, or match director if they don't tweek these substantially...they're just really confusing! And a couple of good range lawyers...well, I can only imagine how that's gong to go!

Luckily, not my worry! I just hope it becomes clear for everyone who signed up for these matches!

Edited January 4, 2015 by Benelli Chick

[toothandnail]

That's why I like OPEN . . . er , ah . . . . . Unlimited ? ? ? but with limits ? ?

[ToysRUs]

It was a long day in and out of the rain at a 3 gun match today. Then during the drive home I get a text from ElGuapo ( who stayed in bed due to rain chance) and a FB message from Bryan 45. Both about the rules and what Tennessee 3 Gun Series is going to do.

I just ate, had 2 beers and a Captain and Coke then looked at the pdf.

Now my head hurts and I'm going to re-look at them in the morning....

What the hell did they do......

You ppl are so demanding

Edited January 4, 2015 by ToysRUs

[caz41]

So why can Heavy Optics have a tube that can't hold more than 8 at any time, but Heavy Sport or whatever HM used to be can load more than 9 after the buzzer?

[alma]

Looks like 3.1 has been enhanced. Touching a rope fault line while shooting is now a penalty.

"A competitor commits a foot fault if any part of their body comes in contact with a rope fault line while firing a shot."

[Therealkoop]

The rope thing is the biggest change for me as a Tac Ops shooter. Im so used to touching ropes as references in every other shooting sport, im sure to eat some penalties on that one.

[Moltke]

Wow. This rebranding divisons and rewriting the rule book is a mess. I'm very surpried.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Moltke

[gose]

For a minute I got really excited and thought that they would actually have an unlimited division. Then it turns out they just renamed Open. :/

[ziebart]

To me 1.5 could be rewritten as such.

1.5 a) Abandoned Firearm Defined: Any firearms left anywhere, unless it is breaking the 180. Abandoned firearms can be retrieved and used.

1.5 Grounded Firearm Defined: Abandoned firearms become "grounded" once the next firearm is discharged. Grounded firearms not meeting the stage brief requirements will be subject to penalties.

The definition of grounded could use some work for sure.

[thermobollocks]

For a minute I got really excited and thought that they would actually have an unlimited division. Then it turns out they just renamed Open. :/

What are some things you'd like to see in true Unlimited?

[TonytheTiger]

For a minute I got really excited and thought that they would actually have an unlimited division. Then it turns out they just renamed Open. :/

What are some things you'd like to see in true Unlimited?

High powered squirt guns. Oh, and sharks.

[The Donald]

I tried reading the rules over quite a few times. The grounding/abandoning firearms is a real confusing mess. Should be safety on (if there is one) or chamber cleared, with the firearm pointed down. The DQ part needs to be made very clear, not one time DQ, another a penalty.

The pistol caliber classes are not needed. At the Southwest match most shooters were in Tac Ops (I guess practical), there were 10-12 in Open and Tac Irons (or Limited). I can see trying the two heavy classes to see if they can get enough shooters to make the class worth having.

[P.E. Kelley]

So why can Heavy Optics have a tube that can't hold more than 8 at any time, but Heavy Sport or whatever HM used to be can load more than 9 after the buzzer?

The Why is, to try to equalize the two classes of equipment because they WILL be scored as one division. The hope was to

keep Heavy going to increase participation.

[Langenator]

For a minute I got really excited and thought that they would actually have an unlimited division. Then it turns out they just renamed Open. :/

What are some things you'd like to see in true Unlimited?

Tripod mounted miniguns. Grenade launchers. Flamethrowers. Phased plasma lasers.

[StealthyBlagga]

Firstly, my head hurts reading those rules; the format with no indentation, lots of bold/underline, and incorrect English all makes it hard to grind through. Using unfamiliar division names does not help either.

A lot of the requirements seem to be ill-defined (e.g. "factory configuration") and/or unenforceable (e.g. Factory Shotgun maximum capacity?). I am also not a fan of the current trend of downgrading safety-related penalties from a match DQ to a small time penalty - abandoning an unsafe gun and firing slugs at close-range steel both meaningfully impact safety on the range and should be discouraged by more than a 10-second penalty IMHO. The rules seem to be written with the goal of making things as forgiving as possible for the competitor, at the expense of safety and competitive equity.

I do give 3GN credit for shaking things up with the equipment divisions though. It looks like their heart is in the right place.

Edited January 4, 2015 by StealthyBlagga

[StealthyBlagga]

I woke up with this in my inbox as well. I'm not a fan of all the divisions being redone. I can understand adding a few but do you have to abandon the names everyone has come to understand

I'm also puzzled to see a number of rules sets, not just 3gn, make various statements about factory configurations ... err .. okie, but really who's 3gun rifle/shotgun/pistol is in "factory configuration"? WTH does that even mean anymore?

Indeed - this meaningless and unenforceable rule is a legacy from the original IMA rules, which provision we finally expunged in our 2014 update.

[P.E. Kelley]

I woke up with this in my inbox as well. I'm not a fan of all the divisions being redone. I can understand adding a few but do you have to abandon the names everyone has come to understand

I'm also puzzled to see a number of rules sets, not just 3gn, make various statements about factory configurations ... err .. okie, but really who's 3gun rifle/shotgun/pistol is in "factory configuration"? WTH does that even mean anymore?

Indeed - this meaningless and unenforceable rule is a legacy from the original IMA rules, which provision we finally expunged in our 2014 update.

Unfortunately that (actually one or another iteration of the IMA rules) is where so many matches and now organizations get that "factory config" language.

[springy]

Just got back from the TarHeel rules page, and my interpretation is subject to updates.

Factory division is/was TacIron

extended sights not banned

8 round limit in shotgun tube

no basepads on pistol

30 round rifle mags only

enlarged shotgun ports to not actually change shotgun configuration

Heavy sport is/was HML

pistol 45, 171mm mag limit, no limit on capacity

no rifle mag limit

8 round limit in shotgun tube

The rules are specific to regional 3gun nation matches which are televised - I'm thinking the rules are tweeked so people will see normal guns in use instead of "race guns only"?

We don't plan on making any regional matches, since these are labeled for regional, is there a normal rule set out there?

[Benelli Chick]

Just got back from the TarHeel rules page, and my interpretation is subject to updates.

Factory division is/was TacIron

extended sights not banned

8 round limit in shotgun tube

no basepads on pistol

30 round rifle mags only

enlarged shotgun ports to not actually change shotgun configuration

Heavy sport is/was HML

pistol 45, 171mm mag limit, no limit on capacity

no rifle mag limit

8 round limit in shotgun tube

The rules are specific to regional 3gun nation matches which are televised - I'm thinking the rules are tweeked so people will see normal guns in use instead of "race guns only"?

We don't plan on making any regional matches, since these are labeled for regional, is there a normal rule set out there?

Rob Romero posted on facebook that these rules (except for a few specific ones) will cover pro, regional and club series.

[Benelli Chick]

Hate to hear guns dumped muzzle down in a bucket or barrel without the external safety engaged is considered unsafe.

An abandoned (or grounded....) gun with muzzle facing into the dirt is following all the safety rules.

It is pointed in a safe direction.

There is no finger in the trigger.

It is treated as if it's loaded.

It knows it's target and what's behind it.

I understand because of the word "safety" that it is treated as a safety rule. But, as long as no one touches it/clears it/etc it is a perfectly safe gun. If you abandon it on a table ad then go in front of it...then you are breaking a safety rule...it is now NOT pointed in a safe direction.

I think 3-Gun Nation's new rules are confusing when read, but I think this is generally the policy they are following.

10 seconds seems like so little, but remember, their miss is less than that at 5 seconds. Their stages are so quick, a 10 second penalty will probably take them out of the top 4 or 5 for the pro series, and will certainly hurt anyone else's score. Even for your average Joe, that could be 1/3 or even 1/2 of a total stage time...some stages, MORE than total stage time. In total time, that is a major penalty that you can't recover from!

[alma]

I know it's an obvious safety measure but the start conditions for pistol don't have any language requiring safety to be engaged on a loaded SA pistol when holstered.

[OscarMike]

Subscribed

[mwx40x40]

I dont think those mods will put you in unlimited. Its poorly written for sure but they aren't stupid enough to make 90% of the equipment currently being used illegal.

I kind of figured as much, however, ever since I got bumped to Open in a USPSA match while shooting Production with a G-34 that had a plastic grip plug in it,because the plug changed the profile of the factory configuration . I know this is 3GN and not USPSA, but,I try to read these equipment divisions a little more careful now.

Edited January 4, 2015 by mwx40x40

[alma]

I dont think those mods will put you in unlimited. Its poorly written for sure but they aren't stupid enough to make 90% of the equipment currently being used illegal.

I kind of figured as much, however, ever since I got bumped to Open in a USPSA match while shooting Production with a G-34 that had a plastic grip plug in it,because the plug changed the profile of the factory configuration .I try to read these equipment divisions a little more careful now.

Was that recent? There was an explicit ruling by DNROI that those plastic grip plugs were now legal in Production.

Edit: here is the official ruling. You were moved to Open incorrectly. http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=34

Edited January 4, 2015 by alma

[ambluemax]

So why can Heavy Optics have a tube that can't hold more than 8 at any time, but Heavy Sport or whatever HM used to be can load more than 9 after the buzzer?

The Why is, to try to equalize the two classes of equipment because they WILL be scored as one division. The hope was to

keep Heavy going to increase participation.

Good point Pat. In that light, I guess it makes some sense.