Sarge Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Oh they are taking over? Where all the major matches I shoot at and locals I see none. It's my opinion. 38 is far superior to 9mm. Your opinion is different than mine.9 out of 10 Open guns built today are probably 9's. At the Majors I shoot at and the locals around here only a few dinosaurs shoot 38. I tried to keep a count at the last Area match I worked but it was so overwhelmingly obvious that 9MAJOR was the caliber of choice that I quit counting. Have talked to many 38 shooters who said the only reason the keep shooting it is they don't want to spend the money to rebarrel and rework their 38's.38 is a dying breed. Since the mods have already homed in on me that's about all I'm allowed to say. I won't argue the point any more. Ok, so you've established that 38 is a dying breed and most people shoot 9major now. But other than brass cost, no one has stated an advantage of 9 over 38 super/supercomp. Still want to know as I am new to open. I can try but it DOES revolve around brass. If you are wealthy enough to shoot 38 and let it lie without regret than by all means you should shoot it. When I see shooters looking for brass instead of caring about the hits being scored on their targets, that's a problem. When I hear shooters telling me starline will do another run of 38 in 2 months but until then they have to cut back on locals instead of preparing for a major match, that's a problem. When a shooter is talking about how much he spent on a stage because he can't find his brass in the grass, that's a problem. When a shooter says something like, yeah but I get a bigger fire ball out of my 38, that's a problem. When most 38 shooters are waiting on vithavouri to make it's TWO deliveries to the states per year, that's a problem. When a 38 shooter sees a home built 9MAJOR gun puke and thinks it's the caliber's fault, that's a problem. When it's 95 degrees in the shade and you have been at a match all day, but you still need to try to at least find half of your brass after everybody else is having wings and beer, that's a problem. When 38 shooters are still looking for brass while others are resetting the stage, that's a problem. When your brass "stash" only numbers in the hundreds, that's a problem. All of these take away from the shooting to an extent. When we are at a match we should be having fun and focus on the shooting. not worrying about any or all of the above. But like I said, if you can afford to buy several hundred dollars worth of brass per year and leave it lay after shooting it one time then by all means shoot it. As far as the rounds themselves, comps and powders have come a long way. A bullet doing 1500 fps doesn't care what size case it came out of. I have actually heard a shooter say something like, "imagine if that had been a 38 super instead of a 9MAJOR that hit that prop". HUH? REALLY? With a good comp and a load set up for it a 9MAJOR gun shoots just as well as any other open gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOBGT Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Ok so after reading all that, it is ok to assume there is no reason, OTHER than brass cost, to choose 9mm over 38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearsomeCritter Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 So...basically brass/brass-rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnit Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) This debate will not die in our life time. Pick the caliber you want to shoot , without having to try and convince yourself or anyone else, that you made the right choice with your gun, regardless of whatever the reasons may be, it does not matter, it's nobody else's business. Whether it's 9mm or 38sc , both can be made to shoot equally well. It will always come down to personal preference and how the gun feels in your hands. If this is your first Open gun, try and shoot others before making a decision. There's a possibility you may not like shooting an open gun at all. And If you feel you will have more fun shooting a specific caliber, for whatever reason, than pick that caliber and go have fun. Remember a lot of us are just trying to have some fun when we go shooting. As for the OP, If you want to shoot both steel and open major, Trubor in 9mm and just swap out springs and load. Edited December 28, 2014 by gunnit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Ok, so you've established that 38 is a dying breed and most people shoot 9major now. But other than brass cost, no one has stated an advantage of 9 over 38 super/supercomp. Still want to know as I am new to open. I'll give you one: less powder. I've shot 9 major for a few years and recently picked up three 38s to play with. I haven't done enough testing to conclude without a doubt but at this point I still prefer 9mm. All things being equal it takes more powder to get the same velocity and I know in theory that additional powder should create more gas to keep the gun flatter, but I just simply haven't observed that. So far I haven't shot the same exact setup with 38 and 9mm at the same PF, but I'm working on it... Not worrying about my brass during a match is definely a big plus for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock34Guy83 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I'm a noob to open as well and just bought my first open gun which is chambered in 38 super. The way I see it is eventually you will be picking up brass weather it's for 9 or 38 super. If you shoot 9 major and you leave your brass on the range after a stage, eventually your brass stash will dwindle and you will need to pick up some brass to replenish. If you shoot 38 super you will want to pick up your brass after you shoot the stage. It just comes down to when you will be picking up brass, because no one has a never ending supply of 9 or 38. As for cost of new or one fired 38 I just look at it as you have to pay to play. I honestly would have wanted to buy a 9 major gun but in the state of Massachusetts my options were limited. Open guns don't hit the market very often locally so when a used one with 5 mags came up for sale locally I couldn't afford to be picky about calibers. Just my opinion on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If you shoot 9 major and you leave your brass on the range after a stage, eventually your brass stash will dwindle and you will need to pick up some brass to replenish. If you shoot 38 super you will want to pick up your brass after you shoot the stage. It just comes down to when you will be picking up brass, because no one has a never ending supply of 9 or 38. My experience may be completely unique, but this is just not true for me. I have never bought 9mm brass and I have bought every piece of 38 brass I've ever shot. The difference is in the sheer number of 9mm shooters (major, minor and factory) vs the number of 38 shooters, furthermore the percentage of 9mm shooters interested in their brass vs every 38 shooter I've ever seen scrounging for all their brass. The way my squad works: while everyone is taping and resetting steel, one shooter is picking up all the brass, at the end of the day everyone who wants some takes a split of the brass. The 9mm shooters always come away with more than they shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynes_world_45 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) CKArms...partnership between Booby Kiegans and Matt Cheely There are 2 models as seen below 3500$ brand new with slide ride Cmore...3750 as pictured in the second picture with the micro c-more I love mine....shoots flat and runs Edited December 28, 2014 by waynes_world_45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynes_world_45 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Go to CKArms website for build specs...all top notch components Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock34Guy83 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If you shoot 9 major and you leave your brass on the range after a stage, eventually your brass stash will dwindle and you will need to pick up some brass to replenish. If you shoot 38 super you will want to pick up your brass after you shoot the stage. It just comes down to when you will be picking up brass, because no one has a never ending supply of 9 or 38.My experience may be completely unique, but this is just not true for me.I have never bought 9mm brass and I have bought every piece of 38 brass I've ever shot. The difference is in the sheer number of 9mm shooters (major, minor and factory) vs the number of 38 shooters, furthermore the percentage of 9mm shooters interested in their brass vs every 38 shooter I've ever seen scrounging for all their brass. The way my squad works: while everyone is taping and resetting steel, one shooter is picking up all the brass, at the end of the day everyone who wants some takes a split of the brass. The 9mm shooters always come away with more than they shot. As far as buying brass I completely understand never having to buy a single piece of 9 brass and on the flip side having to buy 38 super brass because of the cost factored in, you don't find a whole hell of a lot of it on the range. My theory is eventually everyone picks up brass weather is be 9 to replenish their stock or 38 super because of cost. But if the 9 guys are running 9's because the cost of the brass is a deal breaker that's completely understandable. Hell I'm still on the fence about having a new 9 top end built for my 38 super to see which one I prefer to shoot. Not for cost reasons but to see which one feels better and works better for me. If I find I like the recoil impulse of a 38 super over a 9 I will more then likely stick with the 38. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Don't bother with the expense of a new top end, just shoot 9mm in your 38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 One more thing about brass: I'm a member of an indoor range with a relatively small number of reloaders, so when I show up for a session I sweep up a pile of once fired (most likely) factory brass, shoot my reloads and leave them. For me it's that with 38 I have to pick up MY brass, but with 9 I can pick up ANY brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 To each his own. Whether it be 9 major or 38 super (or variant), it is a personal choice. We can argue this till the proverbial cows come home (and it has been argued till they came home and left again!). The 38 super people will say theirs is better, the 9 major guys will say theirs is better....it depends on what the shooter wants...and what trade off the shooter is willing to deal with. Each has it advantages and disadvantages.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I like picking up brass WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT, not because I have to. I work a couple of majors a year and pick up brass for a total of about 6 hours and I get enough 9mm to shoot the rest of the year and leave it all lay if I feel like it. Everything else I scrounge the rest of the year is under my bench in 5 gallon buckets. Several 5 gallon buckets. Last time I bothered to do a rough count I had about 40k pieces of 9mm brass on hand. As for 38 super type brass I might find a few hundred a year total. Then, when I ask around who might want it, they want to know is it SC or straight super! Sometimes easier just to leave it lay or throw it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunkmnky Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 In my mind we all shoot. So we all win - nothng like enjoying yourself with friends and some competition. Simple thing at the end of the day. Did you have fun shooting whether it's a 22 or 50 cal. It is still pretty easy for me - 20k plus 9mm - 3 - 38 Super 38 Super - 149.00 per 1k x 20 - 2980.00 ( Hey there is my open gun. ) The simple question is...... did I have fun. Yes... And met some really good folks along the way so far. Waynes_world - Those are very nice looking pistols. But trying not to spend that much. I do have to say - I never pick up 9mm brass at a USPSA shoot - I am to worried about 9mm major and case splits. To me really it just boils down to economics. There are tons of 9mm cases people are practically giving away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I like your thinking Trunk Monkey Being patient and buying used is a great way to get into Open, I've bought three used 2011 Open guns (two in the classifieds here and one on Gun Broker) and have been very satisfied. The most I've had to do is install fresh Aftec springs in one of them after a few hundred rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunkmnky Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 kneelingatlas - I thought it was good. :-) The amount I save on brass then I can buy both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 If recommend 38s over 9mm all day everyday and then some. The 9mm is a very snappy major pf with some ok powders. There are a lot more powder that will utilize a comp better in 38. 38 is far superior to 9 major in everyway except brass cost. And you can still find decent deals on 38. the trade off for cheap brass is not worth it in my opinion. I think this is an outdated and purely personal opinion. 9MAJOR guns are taking over for a reason. There are more powder, comp and bullet combinations being realized every day. There are more good reasons to shoot 9 than just brass cost. Name one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Oh they are taking over? Where all the major matches I shoot at and locals I see none. It's my opinion. 38 is far superior to 9mm. Your opinion is different than mine.9 out of 10 Open guns built today are probably 9's. At the Majors I shoot at and the locals around here only a few dinosaurs shoot 38. I tried to keep a count at the last Area match I worked but it was so overwhelmingly obvious that 9MAJOR was the caliber of choice that I quit counting. Have talked to many 38 shooters who said the only reason the keep shooting it is they don't want to spend the money to rebarrel and rework their 38's.38 is a dying breed. Since the mods have already homed in on me that's about all I'm allowed to say. I won't argue the point any more. Ok, so you've established that 38 is a dying breed and most people shoot 9major now. But other than brass cost, no one has stated an advantage of 9 over 38 super/supercomp. Still want to know as I am new to open. Other than cost of brass, there are zero advantages for 9mm. 38 vs 9 is a very regional thing as well. Where I shoot, there are 10:1 38:9 Someone is is trying to state their bias as fact when they say 38 is dying. If there was a single advantage to 9, every single shooter on the Open Super Squad would be using 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosh79 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The advantage is brass. That is it. They are snappier, more violent recoil, dot tracking is less predictable but yep it's the better cartridge. Good call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Just ran this 38 vs 9 past Shay. Current build ratio at AKAI is 8:2 Supercomp to 9 major.Among shooters A class and above at the time of order the ratio is over 10:1 38 Supercomp is far from dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) 38 Supercomp is far from dying. Deleted negative post. Sorry about that. Edited December 29, 2014 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 They are snappier, more violent recoil, dot tracking is less predictable but yep it's the better cartridge. Good call Simply not true in all cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunkmnky Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 Do they have any cheap for sale. LOL ( I couldn't even afford their cheap one. LOL ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunkmnky Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 Hello All - So not to get anyone in trouble - Lets just look at both and I will be the judge. Everyone has been really great. Let's keep that going. I would also like to say thanks to all who have been sending me some. I appreciate it - Along with all your knowledge. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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