Bench Cleanup - Powder Vac

[SW39]

Hello all,

Been searching through the history and I can't seem to locate any information or should I say posts on bench cleanup tools and vac's

I don't care how neat you are you are going to drop some powder, late flakes from the powder funel during advancing to the next stage

Primers not hitting the spent cup and so on.

I have been using dialed down compressed air, canned air, dust pan and brush, cloth wipes and have been wondering about adding a vac of some sort.

My concern is static discharge that a vacum can produce, primers and powder.

So am I dreaming here or are others using some sort of vacum and having no problems?

I will take clean up tips, links to other posts that I missed or can't seem to find, and yes I know be more careful...

Thanks - Tom

Edited December 6, 2014 by SW39

[Ken_Bird]

Well, I may be the dummy here and other may jump on me but ! I use air, not dialed down and a vacuum. I try and keep my press as clean and free from junk as possible so that I have fewer problems. I feel that the small amount of powder and even a few primers do not represent that big a danger. As I said, maybe I am wrong, but that is what I have been doing for 15 years. Hopefully yo9u will get some more advice here. Good Question! Don't believe I have ever seen it ask.

[Guest]

Best practice would be to avoid using an electric vacuum and instead use a brush/dustpan or a pneumatic vacuum (they run about 25-50 bucks).

The major concern with vacuuming smokeless propellant is not the static, but rather contact with the running electric motor. If you are using a bagged vacuum or a shop vac that has good filters you are probably OK. If using a shop vac with out the filter (or the filter/.bag broke) then the grain can ignite from the motor and depending on the vacuum and amount of powder cause a shower of sparks to be ejected from the exhaust or possible ignition of the collected contents.

Personally, I sweep up as much as possible and then will vacuum the few wayward grains with a handheld vacuum that has a good filter installed.

[Graham Smith]

Well, I may be a fool, but I use a small shop vac with a length of flexible tubing attached.

I'm working on a new shop now and was going to get a small battery operated vacuum and rig a tube to it. This would be dedicated to the reloading bench and could easily be emptied after each use. Better than using a general purpose vacuum.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Graham Smith

[Sarge]

Well, I may be a fool, but I use a small shop vac with a length of flexible tubing attached.

I'm working on a new shop now and was going to get a small battery operated vacuum and rig a tube to it. This would be dedicated to the reloading bench and could easily be emptied after each use. Better than using a general purpose vacuum.

Same here. I have a small wall mounted vac in my loading room. For the few stray grains of powder that get dropped I just vac the room periodically. The only thing I try to pick up as soon as I drop one is a new primer. They can pop if you vac them up from what I understand.

I also have a mini compressor in the room that I use a lot. I blow the press off occasionally but I use it mostly when putting brass in the feeder. I scoop a few hundred out of the brass bin and put it in a plastic shoe box. I blow that while shaking and it gets any left over corn cob bits out before I spray it with one shot. This has kept the press and bench much cleaner while loading

[MarkCO]

I do fire and explosion reconstruction for living, I use a vacuum.

[bikerburgess]

I stole my wife's dust buster hand vac,

[jmorris]

One of my friends photo that pops up when he calls me is part of the impeller left over from when he blew up his shop vac. Spilled powder over time and then a live primer. Kind of wish I was there at the time.

I use a dust mop and pan (wood floors) broom (concrete floor) or a pneumatic vaccum at the press/on bench.

[Graham Smith]

One handy tool can be found at almost any drug store. It's a rubber bulb sold as an "ear syringe". Perfect for directly little puffs of air in tight quarters. Also, the canned air used for electronics is good but more expensive.

[SW39]

Jmorris,

Love to have been there to.

So my concerns are verified, but not as common as I was concerned about.

Black & Decker makes this battery vac on the link below has good filter.

http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/BDH2000PL.aspx

Anyone using it.

Currently use dust pan and wet clothe to mop up tile floor and wood bench

For the press I use canned air for the bench compressor air cut down

I put all the pickup in a used powder bottle to collect for disposal

[MarkCO]

A static spark is usually insufficient to ignite a stoichiometric mixture of natural gas. It sure as heck won't be enough to ignite smokeless powder. The thermal mass is too high to overcome the required heating to the ignition temperature. Unless the filter is compromised, you are not going to get powder to a motor on a shop vac either.

[rtp]

One handy tool can be found at almost any drug store. It's a rubber bulb sold as an "ear syringe". Perfect for directly little puffs of air in tight quarters. Also, the canned air used for electronics is good but more expensive.

You can go a step up from the ear syringe - look for a 'rocket blower' for photography.

http://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1900-Rocket-Blaster-Large/dp/B00017LSPI

[Steve RA]

I've always used a vacuum, of one sort or another.

[jmorris]

So my concerns are verified, but not as common as I was concerned about.

Over the last 30 years or so I have sucked them up into the vaccum myself, they generally sound like you are sucking up a BB. I never sucked up powder and primers but even dust can be explosive under the right conditions. All that ever happened to me when one went off inside was it smelled weird.

A static spark is usually insufficient to ignite a stoichiometric mixture of natural gas. It sure as heck won't be enough to ignite smokeless powder. The thermal mass is too high to overcome the required heating to the ignition temperature. Unless the filter is compromised, you are not going to get powder to a motor on a shop vac either.

Like I said I have been guilty of doing it myself, even with vaccums where they go through the impeller that is much more likely to set them off.

However, qualifiers like "usually...unless" count on ideal situations what we are talking about are less than ideal situations.

If we counted on usually and unless in our sports we would keep our fingers in trigger guards, never use safety's and stay hot throughout the entire match. Some rules you put in place for the exceptions.

[Guest]

Just as a reference:

The US Navy's Ammunition and Explosive Safety Ashore directive, NAVFAC OP 5 (section 9-3.4.2) talks about dry vacuuming systems for explosives - and portable vacuums (what we are all talking about here) are expressly forbidden from being in the same area as explosives. The 45th Space Wing operations safety, the other military branches, and ordnance manufactures like ATK have similar directives in place. In my experience anyone using a shop-vac to pick up explosive debris would most likely be fired or at the very least severely disciplined with a change of job responsibilities that would keep them away from ordnance. We do use electrically driven vacuum systems but they are purpose built, or we use the pneumatic vacuums for small jobs.

Not saying that spilled powder can't be vacuumed without incident as obviously a lot of reloaders have done it...myself included...but there is some risk and we should acknowledge that as the ordnance professionals have. Hopefully, most of us aren't spilling more than an ounce or so - Powder is just too precious to waste!

(Although my last experience loading SR4756 for major on a 650 was kind of messy and I wasted 15 or 20 grains or so, I had forgotten why I usually load it on a 550...lots less powder jump from the cases)

BTW - That rocket blower if pretty cool. I may order one next time I get something off Amazon. Thanks for the heads up.

[Lifeislarge]

You can always put a drywall bag in your Shop Vac. If they can trap that fine dust powder is no prob. If you're still sketchy moisten some sawdust or dirt and vacuum that up first then clean your bench.

[RDA]

I use a small shop vac that has a filter system as well as a bag system, I feel pretty comfortable using it vacuum up my reloading area.

Thanks MarkCO for your input.

[Slotbike]

I have a small stainless Stanley shop vac. It has a paper bag filter and a fabric filter and a sponge filter installed, in that order. Totally confident that nothing is getting to the motor.

G

[Bkreutz]

I'm fatalistic, if it's my time to blow up, it will happen. (I use a shop vac).

[trgt]

I have a Metro - Data Vac Pro, saw another person strapped one to the leg their reloading bench and stole their idea. These vacs are meant for cleaning up toner from copy machines, so they have a very fine pre-filter bag everything comes into, before continuing into the main canister or anywhere near the motor. I vacuum up any errant powder (very small amounts), then empty that bag onto the law to fertilize. I try not to get primers, and I use the micro tip/brush kit as a way to keep the press clean but not suck up the brass pins from the dillon.

Edited December 7, 2014 by trgt

[Currently]

Poking thru a half filled vacuum bag for those brass pins really sucks!

[fishsticks]

Poking thru a half filled vacuum bag for those brass pins really sucks!

Indeed! I try to remember to pull them out before vacuuming for that very reason.

[trgt]

... that micro tip attachment is too small to inject the brass pins, so I only use that near the plate :-) (and yes, only took me once vacuuming one up to not want to do that again)

[mikeinctown]

Just as a reference:

The US Navy's Ammunition and Explosive Safety Ashore directive, NAVFAC OP 5 (section 9-3.4.2) talks about dry vacuuming systems for explosives - and portable vacuums (what we are all talking about here) are expressly forbidden from being in the same area as explosives. The 45th Space Wing operations safety, the other military branches, and ordnance manufactures like ATK have similar directives in place. In my experience anyone using a shop-vac to pick up explosive debris would most likely be fired or at the very least severely disciplined with a change of job responsibilities that would keep them away from ordnance. We do use electrically driven vacuum systems but they are purpose built, or we use the pneumatic vacuums for small jobs.

Not saying that spilled powder can't be vacuumed without incident as obviously a lot of reloaders have done it...myself included...but there is some risk and we should acknowledge that as the ordnance professionals have. Hopefully, most of us aren't spilling more than an ounce or so - Powder is just too precious to waste!

(Although my last experience loading SR4756 for major on a 650 was kind of messy and I wasted 15 or 20 grains or so, I had forgotten why I usually load it on a 550...lots less powder jump from the cases)

BTW - That rocket blower if pretty cool. I may order one next time I get something off Amazon. Thanks for the heads up.

I think there is a difference between an ordinance building and the bench for a loading press. We are (at least I am thinking) talking about the few granules of powder that get accidentaly dumped from a case or the powder drop. In this instance, even if the powder was to ignite upon entry into the vacuum, it really doesn't have enough energy to do any damage. Now if I accidentally spilled a half pound of bullseye then I would probably get out the dust pan and broom and sweep it up by hand. Depending on the remaining amount, I would either wipe with a paper towel or vacuum it up.

[Clipper]

If it gets on the press, I just blow it off with a can of air (from the Office Depot) and anything on the floor, gun powder, an occasional spent primer, dirt, dust. leaves, all get blown outside with a battery powered leaf blower. Any gun powder makes good fertilizer, green up that side of the yard a bit.