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Classic - Moon Clip Division


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ICORE is looking to include the 625, 646 and others that only have 6 shots. As IDPA is doing away with the moonclipped division they have no place to shoot it and in USPSA the 6 shots have to work with a disadvantage. The idea, brought about by a member, would let all the the revos play. You would have no advantage over any of the 6 shots with a 625 except for cheap start up cost in moonclips, and a shorter learning curve on reloading, but you would be competitive on this format and you can shoot the K,L, and N frames. It is something you may want to think about as ICORE has taken a lead in this endevour but it is in the first stage of discussion but can be bear fruit in a short time, but not immediately.

Bubber said that in another thread and I am really intrigued by it. I HOPE it means that the powers that be are considering starting up a second Classic Division just for 6 shot guns using moon clips. Anyone have any insights or thoughts on this? I think it sounds like a great idea.

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Meh, As much as i'm for expanding revolver division, I dont think this change would be worth the efforts.

625s can technically play just fine and equal side my side a 627 in ICORE limited division already, furthermore - doesn't ICORE recognize high 6 shot guns in ICORE already?

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I've considered shooting my 625 at the ICORE monthly match for fun, but I wouldn't shoot it at a regional unless my 627 went down and I didn't have parts to fix it. I believe the advantage goes to the 627. If we had to make major with both guns I believe the recoil of a .357 would even out the advantage of 2 extra rounds.

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ICORE is looking to include the 625, 646 and others that only have 6 shots. As IDPA is doing away with the moonclipped division they have no place to shoot it and in USPSA the 6 shots have to work with a disadvantage. The idea, brought about by a member, would let all the the revos play. You would have no advantage over any of the 6 shots with a 625 except for cheap start up cost in moonclips, and a shorter learning curve on reloading, but you would be competitive on this format and you can shoot the K,L, and N frames. It is something you may want to think about as ICORE has taken a lead in this endevour but it is in the first stage of discussion but can be bear fruit in a short time, but not immediately.

Bubber said that in another thread and I am really intrigued by it. I HOPE it means that the powers that be are considering starting up a second Classic Division just for 6 shot guns using moon clips. Anyone have any insights or thoughts on this? I think it sounds like a great idea.

Jhgtyre. It is in the planning stage to have a 6 shot limited division, if there is enough interest. You could shoot either 6 shot moonclipped guns or the 6 shot speedloader gun. You will only be able to shoot in one division at a time.( my understanding) but it would give the moonclipped gun somewhere to be competitive. Several members are on a committee to see if it is a viable process.

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Since the M625 is my "first love," I like the idea.

I thought about gearing up with auto rim brass and accessories, but gave up on the idea.

In the last couple of years I've become a BIG fan of the M627, but still would love to shoot my M625 in ICORE.

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Classic, limited, whatever they call it I like this plan. Heck make 6 shot open, limited and classic if you want then we can quit trying to make 6 shot neutral stages. Either way I am happy somebody is looking at these things.

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I kinda like the 6 shot neutral rule, it's nice having extra ammunition in my 627. Sometimes shooting every USPSA stage like it's Virginia count gets old.

I can definitely sympathize with that but I think I would rather tolerate that than have the stage designer start tossing in mandatory reloads or weird target engagement requirements just to make it 6 shot neutral. Let me reload when I want and manage my ammo the way I want.

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I think ICORE is the right place to try this. Even with the best intentions, stages at the regional matches I shot were not 6 shot neutral. This will give stage designers more freedom to come up with interesting stages.

While I would wish that people that liked speedloader guns would choose to play in classic, this would give PPC guns a better place to play without really taking people out of classic division.

Based on IRC attendance, it appears that limited division could absorb the reduction in participaition. It also looks like a single gun, a clipped k or l frame, would work for both limited 6 and classic divisions.

With this change, you could also reverse the rule allowing bomar rib sights, but not custom barrels, in classic as well.

The more I think about it, the more full of win this is.

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Six shot guns need an even playing field now...

the adage " you cant have too much ammo" really shows in both IPSC and ICORE...

I would "vote" for a 6 shot division...and so will may wife, who is

a 625 45 minor gsl.

Exactly. Pretending that they can compete in limited, or open for that matter, just because we have a "6 shot neutral" rule/guideline is a fantasy. In reality those extra bullets pay off for the 8 shot guns. This especially true in ICORE because we have no major/minor scoring.

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I kinda like the 6 shot neutral rule, it's nice having extra ammunition in my 627. Sometimes shooting every USPSA stage like it's Virginia count gets old.

I can definitely sympathize with that but I think I would rather tolerate that than have the stage designer start tossing in mandatory reloads or weird target engagement requirements just to make it 6 shot neutral. Let me reload when I want and manage my ammo the way I want.

Really? I've never shot a stage where someone required me to reload to keep 6 shot neutral. 9 shots are 6 neutral.

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I kinda like the 6 shot neutral rule, it's nice having extra ammunition in my 627. Sometimes shooting every USPSA stage like it's Virginia count gets old.

I can definitely sympathize with that but I think I would rather tolerate that than have the stage designer start tossing in mandatory reloads or weird target engagement requirements just to make it 6 shot neutral. Let me reload when I want and manage my ammo the way I want.

Really? I've never shot a stage where someone required me to reload to keep 6 shot neutral. 9 shots are 6 neutral.

Three shooting boxes with a 9 shot array from each. Carrying rounds between boxes means one less reload for 8 shooters, so a mandatory reload between boxes is added. I'm not saying it's creative stage design but I have seen this.

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I would be for any new gun division that might encourage increased ICORE participation. But, think 6 shot moon clip guns would need their own division. They are not truly competitive in 8 shot Limited.... even if the 6 shot neutral rule is enforced... if you have long steel arrays. Even if the steel is in 6 target sets the two extra shots on a 8 shot gun allow a faster pace because you get 2 misses before you are forced to make a reload.

If you put 6 shot moon clips in Classic at a 120 PF you will kill the speedloader guns and turn Classic into a moon clip division.

The biggest drawback to increased ICORE participation, however, is the lack of clubs. Florida is one of the biggest action pistol states and there are only 3 ICORE venues that I am aware of... and they seldom draw more than 35 shooters a match. Part of that may be lack of interest, although in my case it's driving distance. Only one is within two hours. The rest are beyond a one-day trip for me. There have been attempts to start new clubs, but the number of shooters hasn't justified it.

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I wasn't suggesting, or hoping that they put the moonclipped guns in with the speedloaders. I was hoping they were adding a new "Classic" division for the moonclipped guns. You would end up with Classic Speed Loader and Classic Moon Clip Divisions.

I agree that a focus on getting more clubs started is hugely important. Having divisions that are attractive to new shooters might help. Most newbies aren't going to have an Open gun or even an 8 shot. They MIGHT have a 625 or a K/L frame gun lying around though and we should make it easy for them to gear up and come out to play.

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+1! I would love to see increased ICORE participation/clubs, and if a Moon Clip Classic division helps I'm all for it. It would require little more than a slight change in scoring software.

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So we are talking about a new division for a group of shooters who already own 4" 625s and maybe a few with 4" 610s? Doesn't sound like a lucrative idea.

If someone new wants to get into ICORE, or USPSA, it's closest relative in terms of equipment, they aren't going to go out and buy 4" 625s. They are going to buy an 8 shooter.

We are talking about making a division where the only factory gun available is 4", doesn't have manageable factory ammo, and potentially doesn't have any other place to play.

Doesn't sound like a good long term plan to get more/new faces into ICORE.

Keep recognizing the guy that shot fastest with the 6 gun, but don't make another division for the smallest group out there.

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Not too sure where the 4" guns matter here. For ICORE we allow pretty much any length. I would use my 4" 625 though.

-ld

Post a link where I can buy a 5 or 6 inch 625.

....

...

That's what MWP means with the 4 inch 625s?

Again, I'm all for more revolver participation, but if this was up for a vote, I'd vote no.

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Both limited sight guns that won at the IRC were 6" and over. Same with last year, and the year before. Has anyone ever won at the IRC or USPSA revolver nationals with anything less than a 5" gun? Not to my knowledge.

ICORE is a game of accuracy, longer barrel, longer sight radius. A 4" gun, the only 6 shot moon clipped gun on the market, doesn't fit that profile. Let alone a 185gr bullet at minor speeds, the accuracy could be interesting.

There's been a 6 shot gun, fed with speedloaders, scoring in the top of the limited scores the last few years. Even finishing ahead of all the limited shooters one year. I bet if you asked him, he would say that 6 can run with 8.

Making a division for one gun, I still believe isn't a good move to bring more people into the game of ICORE.

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Barrel length will not be an issue. Comparing Josh to everyone else is like comparing iron Mike Tyson to Glass Joe.

How is barrel length not an issue if the only 625 on the market a 4 inch gun ?

With the idpa elimination of esr and this coming around at the same times it's sounds like icore is trying to capitalize on all them now useless 4 inch 625s from idpa.

Unless, this is more about the folks still bitter about not being able to use their 625s in uspsa anymore ?

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