AustinT Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You do not want me speed unloading a shotgun. I will make you nervous. As a low-mass individual, I can (and have and do) pull the trigger faster than my upper body can keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Shrug, I seriously thing you guys are losing the plot. You can make the argument that any rule is unnecessary, right up until someone gets killed. You can decided it isn't a safety rule because you don't like it, and I can argue gravity doesn't exist right up until my ass hits the ground. If guns don't go bang until someone presses the trigger then you don't mind if I sweep you wish a loaded shotgun, right? I mean we can keep the clowns out and the just sweep ourselves all day. Oh nevermind that new shooters exist, nevermind we have 12 years olds shooting this game, its all good. Anyway, I'm out of this discussion, you guys go right ahead and convince match directors to remove any rule that absolves you of taking that fraction of second to apply a safety correctly. Just let me know which ones those matches are so I can avoid them. If you did not want to keep playing then you should not have replied, come on don't quit now! When a gun is in a barrel and no one is touching it is just a tad bit different than someone waving it around. 1 situation breaks many of the cardinal rules of firearms, one breaks none. Right now if you leave a safety off it is a procedural at most matches for failing to follow instructions, not a DQ for unsafe gun handling. I did not make the rule, and honestly I could give a shit less what the condition of the gun is required to be, just as long as I am told up front. All I am saying is that a gun in a barrel will not go off without someone acting upon it so safety on or off, full or empty, until someone touches it it might as well be a rock. The age of the shooter or if they are new has no bearing, unless they have telepathy, but if they have telepathy they could disengage the safety as well. Now about that 9.8 meters per second squared thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinT Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Telekinesis, not telepathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Shrug, I seriously thing you guys are losing the plot. You can make the argument that any rule is unnecessary, right up until someone gets killed. You can decided it isn't a safety rule because you don't like it, and I can argue gravity doesn't exist right up until my ass hits the ground. If guns don't go bang until someone presses the trigger then you don't mind if I sweep you wish a loaded shotgun, right? I mean we can keep the clowns out and the just sweep ourselves all day. Oh nevermind that new shooters exist, nevermind we have 12 years olds shooting this game, its all good. Anyway, I'm out of this discussion, you guys go right ahead and convince match directors to remove any rule that absolves you of taking that fraction of second to apply a safety correctly. Just let me know which ones those matches are so I can avoid them. I'm sorry, Vlad, but you are the one "losing the plot". If you think I, or anyone else in this thread has advocated ignoring the 4 basic safety rules, please quote the offending post. We are talking about what reasonably constitutes safe abandonment for a specific, popular pistol design, when it is muzzle down and not being influenced by anyone. You started by objecting to how unwieldy a time burden this would be for ROs and somehow morphed that complaint into moral equivalence with pointing a loaded shotgun at somebody. I don't think I am the only one who doesn't see a clear connection there. Edited November 4, 2014 by CJW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The fact that a striker gun has passive safeties that are 'good enough' has always made me wonder why a passive safety (grip safety) on a 1911/2011 isn't also 'good enough'. Obviously, if the mechanism is disabled then thats not 'good enough'... but if its active and the gun can't fire, isn't that the whole point? Consider that on a Glock, the striker isn't under full spring pressure, whereas on a cocked 1911 the hammer has enough force to fire the gun if released from the cocked position.... Apples and oranges, children...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1gcountry Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The fact that a striker gun has passive safeties that are 'good enough' has always made me wonder why a passive safety (grip safety) on a 1911/2011 isn't also 'good enough'. Obviously, if the mechanism is disabled then thats not 'good enough'... but if its active and the gun can't fire, isn't that the whole point? Consider that on a Glock, the striker isn't under full spring pressure, whereas on a cocked 1911 the hammer has enough force to fire the gun if released from the cocked position....Apples and oranges, children...... On a glock that is true, but on an m&p or ppq, they are fully cocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Consider that on a Glock, the striker isn't under full spring pressure, whereas on a cocked 1911 the hammer has enough force to fire the gun if released from the cocked position.... Apples and oranges, children...... Not really. On either gun, pull trigger = bang, no pull trigger = no go bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Consider that on a Glock, the striker isn't under full spring pressure, whereas on a cocked 1911 the hammer has enough force to fire the gun if released from the cocked position.... Apples and oranges, children...... Not really. On either gun, pull trigger = bang, no pull trigger = no go bang. Right -- because we've never seen a hammer follow the slide down on a 1911....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Right -- because we've never seen a hammer follow the slide down on a 1911....... Thumb safety isn't going to help that problem one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Consider that on a Glock, the striker isn't under full spring pressure, whereas on a cocked 1911 the hammer has enough force to fire the gun if released from the cocked position.... Apples and oranges, children...... Not really. On either gun, pull trigger = bang, no pull trigger = no go bang. Right -- because we've never seen a hammer follow the slide down on a 1911....... When you had these hammer follows, or saw them, did they result in the firearm discharging? Of all of the times that I had hammer follow,the gun didn't fire. I am not advocating changing any rules, but I still don't see the difference (I have posted on this before) between putting a cocked shotgun in a dump barrel with a safety applied that only blocks trigger movement and a cocked 1911/2011 with a functioning grip safety that blocks trigger movement, outside of the fact that the shotgun doesn't have a half cock notch on the hammer to catch it if it falls. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Hammer follow can certainly go bang, but someone has to rack the slide to make it happen, dump barrels don't have hands, and are not capable of racking a slide, so hammer follow does not matter to this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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