Reduced Size Targets in USPSA

[Mark R]

After receiving and reading the Oct 24 edition of USPSA down Range email blast, the third article down stated that the BoD approved the use of reduced-size metric targets in level one competitions. But then they go on and state that DNROI is requesting comments and feedback as to the preferred size to use. Currently we use 1/2 size targets for 3 gun rifle and would like to use these for USPSA matches.

Does "approved" in the Down Range article mean we can use them now, or do we wait until it's official with a document on DNROI web site stating the approved size?

Before you say ask DNROI...

I've sent in suggestions to the 1/2 size targets to DNROI and also sent in an email asking approval and still have not received any replies.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Mark R

[jester121]

It means the board approved the concept allowing of mini targets in L1 matches, and assigned the DNROI to work out all the particulars to make it a reality.

[NMBOpen]

http://c-mtargets.com/sent to DNROI.

[Flexmoney]

News letter is a bit off. They aren't approved yet.

The BOD has spoke of the reduced sized target ion a few past BOD meetings (should be in the minutes).

We are seeking input from our target suppliers (the idea is to standardize them so we don't have lots of versions floating about).

[Graham Smith]

I'm not exactly sure of the reasoning for wanting this. Is it to make it a bit more of a challenge for matches with limited distances?

[Mark R]

Thanks Flex

Yes...Graham.

[Sarge]

I'm not exactly sure of the reasoning for wanting this. Is it to make it a bit more of a challenge for matches with limited distances?

Same here. I just don't see the need. Seems like a lot of work. What about classifiers? Rules would need rewritten to make sure traditional size targets were used in them.

Why does the BOD keep taking on these trivial matters instead of dedicating themselves to fixing all of the MAJOR problems with the org?

[Flexmoney]

Like I said, this one has been around for a while (over a year). We have clubs, here in Area 5, that requested being able to use reduced targets on their ranges.

Along with the ranges with smaller shooting bays, I imagine the initial desire came from those that also setup a lot of 3-gun. They already have the reduced targets in the prop barn. They see where they could be useful at times.

[Sarge]

Like I said, this one has been around for a while (over a year). We have clubs, here in Area 5, that requested being able to use reduced targets on their ranges.

Along with the ranges with smaller shooting bays, I imagine the initial desire came from those that also setup a lot of 3-gun. They already have the reduced targets in the prop barn. They see where they could be useful at times.

dude those would be some really tiny bays!

[cnote]

Indoor ....

[Sarge]

Dude that's a small indoor range!

[MarkCO]

Indoor and 3Gun is where we use them most. I doubt I would use them much for regular USPSA pistol matches.

[Gooldylocks]

I have shot the mini targets during rifle stuff, and can definitely see how they would be fun for pistol. It gives stage designers some cool ways to place targets. A low port that normally could only have one target now could have 2, short bays could make up for it a bit by using the small targets, etc.

But the first thing that comes to mind.. 22 caliber holes aren't very big, so the targets hold up pretty good. But poking big pistol holes in them... seems like you would have to replace targets a whole bunch over a USPSA match.

[Flexmoney]

dude those would be some really tiny bays!

I've shot on the bays and the targets. I felt the request was appropriate. If these come, you don't have to use them.

Classifiers should be fine. The WSB defines what targets are used already.

[frag316]

Haven't you seen? It's great training:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGJT38HJaHg

[McCringleberry]

Haven't you seen? It's great training:

That's hilarious! That guy's facial expression at the end is so funny.

Back to the topic, this is a great idea and I am glad it's being vetted for match use. There are several times I could have used these in matches to help with shorten bays (when half of the bay is full of water) or to keep full target impacts from striking the ground or getting too close to the top of the berm. Great job!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ROY NEAL]

Kevin,

These are great targets to give clubs such as mine another option as they help provide the difficulty at 15-17 yards that you would normally see at 25-30 yards. Since we don't have 25-30 yards to put targets, this works great. IPSC Canada has been using them for years without a lot of issues. The ones we have been using are 60% of a regular sized target (available at TargetBarn for example in both classic and metric versions). Put them on a swinger at a typical distance and you'll hear some classic complaints from your shooters. But they all will want to shoot the stage again.......

Roy

[JAFO]

Do these work with regular target stands, or are they too narrow to cover the sticks?

[MarkCO]

Too narrow. We usually staple one side and call it good.

[pjb45]

C&M are awesome. We use them all the time. They are big supporters of the sport.

[thermobollocks]

It's such a pain in the 'nads to get a course halfway freestyle (rather than "shoot all the targets from the boxes") in the first place. I am super excited about this. Maybe I won't have to spend 20 minutes fiddling with the walls at our 20x15y indoor range anymore.

[Flatland Shooter]

Too narrow. We usually staple one side and call it good.

I like to use the reduced size targets in practice (but I've not seen them at any local matches).

I keep some 18" long pieces of 1"x 2" in the truck for this purpose. Using a cordless drill and some drywall screws I place two of these horizontally across the target target sticks and attach the targets at the top and bottom. Works well when the Texas winds start up.

Bil

[The Antichrome]

I use reduced size targets for practice. It wasnt hard to build target stands that work for both r.s. and full sized targets.

(if I can do it, anybody can)

We used to have a rimfire match that did the same thing, and of course, its common place in 3 gun.

[StealthyBlagga]

We already have ways of creating smaller, more challenging targets; we can occlude part or all of a full-size target using no-shoots and/or hard cover. The smaller targets do not truly simulate distance anyway, as it is still easier to make hits with imperfect sight alignment/trigger control on small/close targets than large/distant targets. If adopted, I would prefer to see clear rules about how and when reduced-size targets can be used without violating the principles of the sport (i.e. to simulate distance not available in the bays) rather than for them to turn into a kind of gimicky/circus target. IPSC has a specific rule that would serve as an example:

4.2.1 There are two sizes of paper targets approved for use in IPSC Handgun matches (see Appendix B ). The IPSC Mini Target is intended to simulate full size IPSC Targets placed at greater distances. The two sizes may be included together in the same course of fire provided that all Mini Targets are placed at least 2 metres further rearwards of the most distant full size Target in that course of fire (i.e. if the most distant full size Target is 15m downrange, the nearest Mini Target must be at least 17m downrange).

I would also prefer to restrict the ratio of reduced-size:full-size targets so that we don't see whole stages built with the smaller targets. Being cheaper and easier to set up, I am concerned that some MDs will be sorely tempted to over-use them.

Edited January 3, 2015 by StealthyBlagga

[thermobollocks]

What's the deal with "all Mini Targets are placed at least 2 metres further rearwards of the most distant full size Target in that course of fire" ?