Time vs. Targets

[D.Hayden]

I'm sure this is in here somewhere, just couldn't narrow the search enough to find it, or I'm just thick.

I have a good feeling in pistol matches what a miss is worth, time wise

What's a good general rule of thumb for a rifle match?

As an example:

The high hit factor on the 3Gun match for 2 stages was 1.5 and 1.4

For 200yds, not worried about those, but for a 450yd target, I might as well send out for pizza at this stage in my rifle development.

[kellyn]

I would work on being able to hit that 450 shot and then start worrying about whether it is worth it to take a miss. Usually it is not since other competitors will hit it and do it quickly.

If you can hit at 200, you can hit at 450. If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.

[Jake Di Vita]

Yes but I would rather take a miss than take a freakin wrench to the head.

[ErikW]

If the hit factor is 1.5 that's simply 1.5 points per second. As a miss costs you 15 points, you've got 10 seconds to hit the target. What's really hard is having a sense of time while you are tucked in behind the gun looking through tunnel vision trying to get that damned plate.

It's very important to know what game you are shooting. It's usually far more damaging to take a miss in the time-scored 3 gun matches, compared to the pure hit factor USPSA matches.

[Loves2Shoot]

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.

Isn't the idea of the game to shoot the targets? Skipping targets to save time isn't really the point is it? Getting better at shooting is. If it takes you 5 seconds to shoot a target then you need to learn to shoot that shot, not just skip it. It is a game but really, I am very much opposed to even considering skipping targets just because point wise it might make sense.

I play this game to shoot the targets, ALL of them. Rant over.

[benny hill]

My rule is to get a good sight picture fairly fast & break a clean shot. If you don't hit, it is'nt going to get a lot better, cut your losses & move on. This is for ranges beyond 250 yds.

[D.Hayden]

Anything past 100yds is hard to practice, beyond 200 is very rare, so I'm just trying to get some ideas.

I know on Saturday, for some reason, I could not hit one popper, on the far left side of the COF at maybe 150-175 yards, next to the berm. I think I took 6 shots at it from each position (3 different engagements). Other targets in open field, and to the right, I did ok.

I too hate leaving standing targets, but at some point you have to give it up, before they bring out the Sundial.

[EricW]

Berkim,

Anyday you make it up this way, you are welcome come shoot at our range as my guest. Being limited to 100 yards is hell. Been there, done that...

Thank you for asking the question too. It's the one I wish I would have asked.

[Loves2Shoot]

I too hate leaving standing targets, but at some point you have to give it up, before they bring out the Sundial.

As long as you make a legit attempt to shoot at them at least once you golden in my book

I think that knowing when to cut your losses really depends on your goals. It is a tough one, even if the teh math on what "best" to do is pretty simple

[D.Hayden]

I think I fired 31 shots at the first 14 poppers, and then 35 or so at the next 21.

I'm not going to skip completely, I agree, that's not the point why I'm out there, I'm there to shoot, but I have to at least think of the poor guys/gals waiting for me to finish. (Luckily, the rifle is loud enough I can't hear them laughing).

I think, Benny's advice is right on for me. I'll still make a good attempt at them, but not stay for lunch, like you can see, I almost did:

Looking at the match (stage 6)

1 U Limited 144 0 93.26 1.5441 145.0000 100.00

13 C Limited 143 0 285.64 0.5006 47.0093 32.42

vs. me:

15 U Limited 118 40 220.33 0.3540 33.2427 22.93%

I only included Chris's time to show the HHF.

If I'm interpreting this correclty, I was 65 seconds faster, but with 4 misses, and it put me down 9+%. So, if I had made those in 15 seconds each, it would have been worth it?

This was my first 3Gun match, I finished 14th overall out of 22.

Thanks Eric... that'd be cool.

[outerlimits]

I think I fired 31 shots at the first 14 poppers, and then 35 or so at the next 21.

I'm not going to skip completely, I agree, that's not the point why I'm out there, I'm there to shoot, but I have to at least think of the poor guys/gals waiting for me to finish. (Luckily, the rifle is loud enough I can't hear them laughing).

I think, Benny's advice is right on for me. I'll still make a good attempt at them, but not stay for lunch, like you can see, I almost did:

Looking at the match (stage 6)

1 U Limited 144 0 93.26 1.5441 145.0000 100.00

13 C Limited 143 0 285.64 0.5006 47.0093 32.42

vs. me:

15 U Limited 118 40 220.33 0.3540 33.2427 22.93%

I only included Chris's time to show the HHF.

If I'm interpreting this correclty, I was 65 seconds faster, but with 4 misses, and it put me down 9+%. So, if I had made those in 15 seconds each, it would have been worth it?

This was my first 3Gun match, I finished 14th overall out of 22.

Thanks Eric... that's be cool.

well, the scoring on those 2 rifle stages were screwed up...there was supposed to be a max time of 3 mins for each, and they failed to stop some shooters at 180 seconds, so now it's almost worthless to compare. in any case, you have to figure it out. at the 3 gun nats this year, there was a stage (stage 15) with 4 long targets (336 yds & 266 yds). we had a guy throw 4 rounds down range at those at the end of the stage and finished 10th in the stage. another reason to make those targets worth more (but that's another thread)...

[D.Hayden]

We figured that was wrong... that's why I was comparing with someone else that wasn't stopped as well.

With the par time, wouldn't it be best to keep going and get all 7 hits at the first couple.. hopefully allowing enough time for the paper?

[kellyn]

To paraphrase Todd Salmon "There is just something wrong with leaving steel untouched."

[D.Hayden]

OK... I'll confess, on 2 long range rifle stages at Area 2, I still left 1 flasher each.

On the first long range

Maybe newbie nerves, but I took 6 or 7 shoots at a 120yd flasher, standing, using a barricade for support , then skipped it, hit the 384yd on the first shot (it had to be luck, I think the RO's were looking around for whoever really shot it).

On the second, left one 225yd (around there somewhere), did ok with the others. I really didn't want to leave any...