RippSpeed Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) I'm looking for a start recipe for Hodgdon LongShot aka LOUD Shot !!! for a 115gr or 125jhp 9mm Major bullet ... 4 port comp, no pop holes, 5.4" barrel, 5" open gun ... Edited October 20, 2014 by RippSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) HA! (Don't worry all. I know him well.) Edited October 20, 2014 by yoshidaex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 HA! (Don't worry all. I know him well.) damn it I just need starting point Hiro !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Try 7.5 and work up. It's been quite a while since I've used loudshot, but I just looked at my old records and I ended at 8.2 with a 115 mg jhp at 1.235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobzor Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Try 7.5 and work up. It's been quite a while since I've used loudshot, but I just looked at my old records and I ended at 8.2 with a 115 mg jhp at 1.235 What kind of FPS did you see? Been doing the max load from there website and felt snappy but 8.2 is a ton lol, its this a full case @ 8.2gn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Grump, is that 9mm or SC? I'm at 1480 with a MG 115 JHP on top of 8.2 with 1.225 OAL in SC. Two popple holes. Work up slowly with Longshot. It will reach a max speed and then as you add more powder the speed will actually fall off. When it did this in SC for me I had no pressure signs at all which made me...... nervous. Your ES will jump up when you are at the point of diminishing return as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Are these 9mm major or SC ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Sorry, should have said. That was 38 super. Like I said, it's been years since I used it...I went to n105 and never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Sorry, should have said. That was 38 super. Like I said, it's been years since I used it...I went to n105 and never looked back. Oohh ok looking for 9mm loads... just need a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRichardson Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Work up slowly with Longshot. It will reach a max speed and then as you add more powder the speed will actually fall off. When it did this in SC for me I had no pressure signs at all which made me...... nervous. Your ES will jump up when you are at the point of diminishing return as well. I saw this as well with longshot. Another member pointed out that this powder shows to be very slow on the burn rate chart and once you reach a certain point no more powder can be physically burned in a pistol length barrel, and all that you will get is more flash and unburned powder out the barrel. I'm not certain that it is really that dangerous once you get to that level but work up slowly just in case. That being said I really like longshot, when I had my 9 major gun I was running 7.4 grains with a 124 and now use 7.7 grains with a 124 in my 38 super gun. The only problem is both of those are shorty open guns and the plateau area is only about 168-169 PF on both of those guns/ loads and is a little close to minor to use at major matches for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Yes, I am just at 170,max speed with 115s. Would prefer another 5 PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Yeah but is longshot temp sensitive or alitude sensitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 anyone else ??? The 125 JHp I'm loading can only be loaded as long as 1.190 ... Anyone else have a good starting point for me ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Range update: 175PF w/ 7.6grs of LongShot, 1.170oal, a Remington 6 1/2 primer and 125jhp Montana Gold ... Happy camper it meters great and is alot cleaner than HS6. I loaded 5 rds each from 7grs to 8.2grs. I started seeing prime flow at 8grs... It was weird though at heres my range date for u guys to read thru 7.2grs 125JHP 1.170oal hi = 1361 lo = 1348 avg= 1354 pf 169.25 7.4grs 125jhp hi = 1366 lo = 1346 avg= 1358 pf = 169.75 7.6grs 125jhp hi = 1416 lo = 1383 avg= 1402 pf = 175.25 7.8grs 125jhp hi = 1375 lo = 1359 avg= 1365 pf = 170.62 8grs 125jhp hi = 1396 lo = 1378 avg= 1386 pf = 173.25 I stopped there becaude of primer flow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRichardson Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 That's some odd data. The power factor dropping after 7.6 is expected with this powder but I've never seen it start to go back up after dropping off like you have. Definitely need to run more than 5 round. That one abnormally high round in the 7.6 batch may be messing with you average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 That's some odd data. The power factor dropping after 7.6 is expected with this powder but I've never seen it start to go back up after dropping off like you have. Definitely need to run more than 5 round. That one abnormally high round in the 7.6 batch may be messing with you average. Very true ... but I chrono the way they would chrono me at any big match ... mis matched brass and only 3 to 5 rounds ... But of course I'm going to doubel verify before heading to Area 2 next weekend and will post my results again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 That's some odd data.I chrono the way they would chrono me at any big match ... only 3 to 5 rounds I fire at least 20 rounds thru the chrono, and make sure that ALL of them make PF ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhittin Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 The most important data from your chronograph is the Standard Deviation (STD) and you didn't include that. Bottom line is trying to use 3 rounds to measure your average velocity is extremely difficult (because of the huge statistical uncertainty using only 3 samples). I've done the statistical analysis and highly recommend using the following method. You should use 8 rounds (that's all you need) to measure your velocity and STD. Use these measurements as follows. My guidance is to add 2 to 2.5 times your standard deviation to the required velocity to make PF. This gives you your load velocity. This method will give you a high certainty of meeting PF (on the order of 90 to 95% certainty). For a 155 grain bullet, an average velocity of at least 1065 ft/sec is needed to meet major power factor. Lets say your typical measured standard deviation for this load is 15 fps. Simply add 30 ft/sec (2*STD=2*15) which results in an average load velocity of 1065+30 = 1095 ft/sec. Again,measure it with 8 rounds. Note that you still need to account for big factors that affect velocity such as ammo temperature, barrel temp and cleanliness but this is the best way to ensure you meet power factor. I hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 will reload and rechrono my 7.6grs on monday ... will repost and post complete information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhittin Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I can show you why its only a matter of time (or rather chance) before you fail to meet power factor following the rule book procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Heres range results 1=1387 2=1419 3=1357 4=1380 5=1380 6=1381 7=1396 8=1404 9=1384 10=1412 HI=1419 = PF = 177.37 LO=1357 = PF = 169.62 AVG=1390= PF =173.75 ES=62 SD=18 weather: 74 degrees sunny chrono shot under shade Load : 1.170 oal 125jhp 357 sig 0.355 diameter remington 6 1/2 small rifle primer 7.6grs of LONGSHOT This is mixed once fired brass ... Edited November 3, 2014 by RippSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhittin Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 So for a 165 PF the min velocity is 1320 fps. If you add 2 to 2.5 times your STD it gives you a desired load velocity of 1356 to 1365. Personally I find that 170 or slightly above is a sweet spot but there is nothing wrong with a few extra PF points. I know some people that recommend up to 175. Once you know how your powder behaves at worse case temperatures you could reduce the velocity if you want. If you can’t tell a difference in perceived recoil and it shoots accurately then I say you have a winner! I usually warm up the gun with a mag or two before I chrono and I chrono at least twice to make sure the STD is consistent (within a few fps or so). 8 rounds is all you need since 2 and 2.5 were calculated based on 8 samples. FYI - my STD for my comp load is usually about 12 to 16 fps. I load in 200 to 500 rnd batches and I chrono it about every 1000 round or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RippSpeed Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 got back from Area 2 yesterday ... and I made major .. and the load runs super soft and flat ... will be posting a vid for a sample ... and heres my chrono results are Area 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwhittin Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Cool! Sounds like you've got a good load! And best of all you don't have to worry about failing PF if you follow the 2*STD guide and measure the STD with 8 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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