EkuJustice Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Oh you can hold a lot of HS6 in it. Have you looked at the 115s. I was loading between 8.8 and 9.2 in mine depending on the bullet and oal with oal between 1.15 and 1.17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I've loaded 9.5gr of HS6 under a 115 RN @ 1.185" in 9x19 for a PF of 181. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsig03 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Wow...thanks...at 181pf, yikes Sounds a bit scary...but I might try loading a bit more powder. I'm concern the bayou bullets will melt? Do you recommend a lower recoil spring? I shot 9 yesterday at the match too. Had 50% stage failures. 3 out of the five stages had stove pipes loaded as before and one stage I had magazine issues. The nose of the bullet dragged and didn't fed. Should I get Taran spacer, springs and followers? Current using graham springs and followers for 38sc. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 What type of mags? STI? SV? I don't have any experience with STI spacer mags yet. What weight recoil spring are you using? How's the extractor? Lightened slide? Buffer? There are a lot of factors involved in getting an Open gun to run right, but that's part of the fun right?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmo412 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Don't be afraid to run up to a 180PF with HS6. I run either 9.4 HS6 or 10.5 of AA#7 under a 115 JHP at 1.165 in 9-major. The higher in PF I went, the better the gun shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rh203 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 So this is all totally new to me..say I was to re-barrel a .38 for a 9mm...Should I get a new comp too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Don't be afraid to run up to a 180PF with HS6. I run either 9.4 HS6 or 10.5 of AA#7 under a 115 JHP at 1.165 in 9-major. The higher in PF I went, the better the gun shot. Of course, this happens at the expense of gun wear, something to be aware of. To some people a cracked slide is a major expense. Edited April 20, 2015 by Foxbat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsig03 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 What type of mags? STI? SV? I don't have any experience with STI spacer mags yet. What weight recoil spring are you using? How's the extractor? Lightened slide? Buffer? There are a lot of factors involved in getting an Open gun to run right, but that's part of the fun right?!? I have an SVI made to run the old 175 PF. The extractor runs great....hardly any lightening on the slide and no buffer. I might ad in the 38sc. It runs and runs and runs....with no issues. I know what you all are going to say....haha..but I still on the fence about 38sc. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmo412 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Wow...thanks...at 181pf, yikes Sounds a bit scary...but I might try loading a bit more powder. I'm concern the bayou bullets will melt? Do you recommend a lower recoil spring? I shot 9 yesterday at the match too. Had 50% stage failures. 3 out of the five stages had stove pipes loaded as before and one stage I had magazine issues. The nose of the bullet dragged and didn't fed. Should I get Taran spacer, springs and followers? Current using graham springs and followers for 38sc. Many thanks If you are running STI mags, I would recommend running spacers and either Grams or TTI's STI 9mm follower. Some people have had success without using a spacer, but they will help you rule out your mags as an issue. If you are running SVI or MBX mags, no need for a spacer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Agreed ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tino2212 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 In my 9 major sti mags i use arredondo spacers springs and followers runs like a charm never had any mag problems . When i used grams guts i had a lot of nosedive problems . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterkhan Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 PSST... don't tell anybody, but 9 major is usually achieved by loading way over SAAMI specs (for safety). 9 major + 38 super barrel = certain death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Gee, I can't believe I'm still alive !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Gee, I can't believe I'm still alive !!! How do you know that? I am totally unsure of myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Merely a fervent wish ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Oh no, does that mean the SAAMI police are going to come and get me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Apologies in advance for this long-winded post- I know I am chiming in late, but maybe I can shed some technical light on the subject. First off, headspace on a 9x19 is almost a mythical beast. In truth, the chamber depth is about .020 longer than MAX trim length. If you trim to minimum, there is almost 1/32" space between the case mouth and the chamber mouth. No extractor I have ever seen allows this much forward movement. Headspace on a pistol is not nearly as closely controlled as a bottle-necked rifle cartridge, partly because of the pressure ranges encountered. In essence, MANY modern auto-pistols headspace on the extractor, so to speak. As a matter of fact, many in-spec 1911s do the same in .45 ACP. Standard .45ACP headspace is .898 +.022. Add to this any breech-face clearance on the barrel hood and it could be higher. National Match armorers decreased this to .898 +.006 MAX on competition guns. The concept of " headspacing on the extractor" is actually discussed in Kuhnhausen's books. So, in essence here is the firing cycle- 1) Upon primer strike, the cartridge will slide forward in the chamber until progress is arrested by either (A), the case mouth, or (B ), the extractor 2) If there is still sufficient length/energy in the firing pin, the primer will ignite 3) When it ignites, the larger amount of surface area around the flash hole will cause the pressure produced by the primer to back it out of the pocket until it contacts the breech face. 4) As pressure builds, the resistance of the bullet engraving on the rifling will cause the case to slide back against the breech face before pressure is sufficient for the case walls to adhere to the chamber. (THIS IS IMPORTANT-MORE LATER) 5) The firing cycle continues until the bullet leaves the barrel, and rearward inertia overcomes the recoil spring and the weight of the slide, unlocking the barrel. In step 4, this is the critical change when excessive headspace exists- As the case has a running start at the breech face, it acts as a miniature slide-hammer, and transfers an impact shock to the locking lugs between barrel and slide that is not present in a minimum headspace barrel. This is what creates the potential to crack slides and break things. The potential for this excess headspace action exists in all types of firearms, but its effect is easiest to observe in shotguns. There is a huge, noticeable difference in recoil if you have two identical shotguns with .010 difference in headspace, even though chamber pressures are much less than a rifle. Ralph Walker, one of the early shotgun gurus, documented this effect in his book. In a bottleneck rifle cartridge, typically by the time such a headspace condition exists the case head will separate, causing catastrophic damage to the rifle. So, firing a 9x19 in a .38 super chamber is not likely to behave much differently than firing it in a max-depth 9mm chamber (ie, they will BOTH headspace on the extractor), other than the fact that there is now significant "free-bore" ala weatherby rifles which allows for lower bullet engraving pressures. Given the same load, velocity should be lower firing a 9maj load in a .38super chamber than it will be when fired out of a 9maj barrel of the same overall length and bore/groove dimensions due to the bullet's free travel prior to engaging the rifling. Due to the delayed recoil locking mechanism and slightly lower pressures than rifle cartridges, firing a pistol with excessive headpace will not likely suffer a catastrophic failure like a rifle, but will have more recoil than a properly headspaced pistol (whether positioned by extractor or otherwise) and will potentially accelerate part wear and increase the likelihood of a cracked slide or broken barrel lugs. Therefore as a practice it cannot be recommended. For that matter, one of the reasons a well-built custom 2011 seems to recoil more smoothly and controllably than a run-of-the-mill pistol is likely that it is headspaced to near- minimum. Edited April 30, 2015 by openclassterror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So, pick an extractor that holds the rim/base of the cartridge close to the breech face without being so "tight" the case rim won't feed smoothly behind it and you will effectively minimize the headspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboy69 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 My gunsmith told me not to do this. I agree with Parallax3d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Different Strokes for Different Folks !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I learned something from reading this thread. I had no idea parallax 3 whatever was a female! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 My gunsmith told me not to do this. I agree with Parallax3d When I mentioned to my gunsmith that I was doing it, he said no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think this matter should be settled at the next meeting of the American Custom Gunmakers' Guild! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 What makes you think the outcome would be any different than this thread ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I, for one, will not leave this discussion until every last 38 shooter starts using 9mm in his gun! Full victory, or nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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