shooter.860 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Thanks for all the input and sharing your experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 There are a lot of people shooting 9mm out of guns chambered for super with no ill effects. It works perfectly... i did hear that every time you pull the trigger a kitten dies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitvpr Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 There are a lot of people shooting 9mm out of guns chambered for super with no ill effects. It works perfectly... i did hear that every time you pull the trigger a kitten dies... God, I hate when that happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyshoots Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I would like to see the breech face on a super comp gun after 50 or 60 thousand rounds of 9 major. The cost of a new slide barrel and comp might not be worth the loss of half the gun life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Why would the breechface look any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I would like to see the cross section throat of a super barrel after a bunch of 9 major compared to the correct caliber shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I would like to see the cross section throat of a super barrel after a bunch of 9 major compared to the correct caliber shot. It looks just fine, nothing visible at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I would like to see the breech face on a super comp gun after 50 or 60 thousand rounds of 9 major. The cost of a new slide barrel and comp might not be worth the loss of half the gun life. What is that estimate based on? I mean - half life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I would like to see the cross section throat of a super barrel after a bunch of 9 major compared to the correct caliber shot. Maybe like the cylinder of a 357 mag that has seen a bunch of 38+P? Let's put it this way, if you decide you want to run nine, and you have burned up the throat (dubious, but lets say it did happen) and you rebarrel it as a 9, how are you any worse off than if you had rebarreled as a nine to start with? I would like to see the breech face on a super comp gun after 50 or 60 thousand rounds of 9 major. The cost of a new slide barrel and comp might not be worth the loss of half the gun life. What is that estimate based on? I mean - half life. Does anyone have any evidence that would suggest primer leakage and breechface erosion due to using 9 major in a 38 super comp? I think the moral of the story is, shooters who haven't tried it are speculating about theoretical damage that they believe could occur- which is an interesting thought experiment- and shooters who have done it like Foxbat are saying it's a non issue. I didn't put enough rounds through mine to see any ill effects before I sold it so I can't comment on potential long term effects. Let's say you did somehow wear out the barrel throat, and even the slide, at 60k rounds, vs the theoretical 100-120k rounds you would get out of the slide with a barrel chambered specifically for 9 major- it would cost you roughly: Barrel purchase and fitting, fitting comp (same as if you had done it at the start of firing those rounds, as most are suggesting) Slide $225 for caspian slide Fitting $150 You could go mild to wild on lightening and finish, so I can't quote what yours would be, but say 300 for some cuts up front, and a rear scallop+ 100 to get the slide hard chromed- Divide it by 2, because rather than having a 38 super "half" worn out you are now at brand new with the new barrel and slide- and you are looking at $387.50. At this point, if you have saved 387.50 or more on brass in those 60k rounds by shooting 9 rather than super, you are ahead financially. I did it as a test, with no intention of doing it long term, but even if it was as bad as people say, I would venture to guess that unless your brass recovery rate is fantastic and you never shoot majors where you have to leave brass you have saved money. I personally would (and did) test it, and I would rebarrel if I wanted it long term but I just don't get how we have made the jump to it causing damage, and not being worth it if the shooter wants to shoot 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyshoots Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I had a super comp gun that had over a 100 thousand rounds on it. The breech face was shot out in it. If you shot 9 major unsupported the breech face would take most of the force not the chamber. I just had my gun converted over to 9 and the cost of the new barrel, comp, and fitting was $600. The quoted price for a new slide and refinish with rest of the work that was needed to be done was $1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 If I understand you correctly, you are saying the case walls on the 9mm would not expand and grip the chamber, but the .38 Super case would ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyshoots Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The extractor is what is holding the 9 in the chamber not the barrel. When you fire the gun with the a lose round the pressure is going to be directed at the breech face more than if you shot the correct ammo for the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 To be fair, these are all theoretical suppositions, not supported by any facts. My personal experience with such shooting was limited to about 30,000 rounds, so I honestly can't tell you what is going to happen at 100,000, so, as others have indicated, if your intention is to switch competely to 9mm, then getting a new gun or new barrel is, of course, a good idea. However, if you trying to cover your needs until such time that you have the time and money to do it - I have done that, and so have many others with good results. You can also do that to get the feel for the new caliber. I don't see anyone forcing anyone to do something, but in reality, the whole idea of shooting grossly over-pressurized 9 Major sounds crazy on the surface, but we do it day in and day out, with great results, based solely on the collective experience of people who were not afraid to experiment. Ah... yes... my lawyer just called me: Just sharing my experiences... not recommending anything. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I had a super comp gun that had over a 100 thousand rounds on it. The breech face was shot out in it. SPP or SRP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyshoots Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Small rifle with 7625 and 115 mtg hollow points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The extractor is what is holding the 9 in the chamber not the barrel. When you fire the gun with the a lose round the pressure is going to be directed at the breech face more than if you shot the correct ammo for the gun. The extractor is holding the round for headspacing purposes. It keeps the cartridge from going too deep in the chamber. Once the case walls expand they will grip the chamber. Do those of us who squeeze our 40s way down with a U die wear out our slides faster because the case walls are undersize? I do think head spacing matters for primer ignition (where the extractor is holding the round). I could see it being harder on the brass, but I don't see it being so loose that the stress is transfered to the breech face. Think of fluted chambers in MGs or certain pistol barrels. Or how much brass expands at the feed ramp of a Glock chamber. I think to be fair to the idea, someone would need to do wear one out that way, and then we could say it causes additional stress/damage. That being said, nobody is trying to suggest anyone do anything they aren't comfortable with. The actual experience shared in this thread seems to suggest that this type of damage does not occur within 30k rounds. YMMV. Personally I like the super, and will stick with running super brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I had a super comp gun that had over a 100 thousand rounds on it. The breech face was shot out in it. SPP or SRP? Small rifle with 7625 and 115 mtg hollow points. As long as we're speculating do you think it's possible gasses escaping the primer pocket caused your breech face erosion? (not that 100K life is not impressive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parallax3D Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) WOW! I can't believe the number of complete MORONS here who would advise a person to shoot a round in a gun that it was not designed for! This is NOT a .38 Special in a .357 we're talking about. You know what? A .308 will chamber in a .30-06, but you wouldn't want to actually try firing it! (Unless you don't value your gun or possibly your life!) WHY is shooting a 9mm Major in a .38 Super not a good idea?1. 9mm is shorter and will headspace on the extractor, not the case mouth and chamber. The extractor is not designed to hold the round and headspace it.2. .38 Super is a straight-walled cartridge, 9mm is a tapered cartridge. That means that a .38 Super chamber is also larger in diameter, not just length.3. The pressures involved are FAR beyond SAMMI specs.Just because you've gotten away with doing it without a bad result thus far, that doesn't mean it's not a bad idea, and that you should recommend others do the same.Don't "poke the bear." Sooner or later, the bear is going to get pissed and eat you! Edited October 16, 2014 by Parallax3D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 WOW! I can't believe the number of complete MORONS here who would advise a person to shoot a round in a gun that it was not designed for! This is NOT a .38 Special in a .357 we're talking about. You know what? A .308 will chamber in a .30-06, but you wouldn't want to actually try firing it! (Unless you don't value your gun or possibly your life!) WHY is shooting a 9mm Major in a .38 Super not a good idea? 1. 9mm is shorter and will headspace on the extractor, not the case mouth and chamber. The extractor is not designed to hold the round and headspace it. 2. .38 Super is a straight-walled cartridge, 9mm is a tapered cartridge. That means that a .38 Super chamber is also larger in diameter, not just length. 3. The pressures involved are FAR beyond SAMMI specs. Just because you've gotten away with doing it without a bad result thus far, that doesn't mean it's not a bad idea, and that you should recommend others do the same. Don't "poke the bear." Sooner or later, the bear is going to get pissed and eat you! The inevitable return of the name calling and caps lock. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't call me a moron to my face, but keyboards grant so much knowledge and confidence! I'd address your points individually, but they have already been addressed. 9 and 38 super were never designed operate at the pressures we subject them to in order to reach major power factor. I'm not going to recommend that you do it, or that you load 9 Major, or even that you reload at all. I'm only saying I have done it, and see no reason why my life is/was in danger. Unless the above referenced bear is seeking vengeance for all the kittens I am personally responsible for having killed due to firing 9 major out of a super chamber I'm pretty sure I am safe. Nobody has adequately explained the theoretical mechanism by which my life would be claimed, or the catastrophic event head spacing on the extractor. There are people who say if you reload you will blow up guns, kill kittens, and die. Of the people who reload there are plenty of people who say loading 9 major you will blow up guns, kill kittens and die. I guess it boils down to how comfortable you are with killing kittens and dying. Thank you for sharing your experience related to this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 How do people suppose the early .38 Supers worked when they didn't headspace on the case mouth and were held by the extractor for ignition ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardbird Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 If your extractor is tight enough to hold the case against the breachface, then you're most likely not headspacing on the case mouth anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 How do people suppose the early .38 Supers worked when they didn't headspace on the case mouth and were held by the extractor for ignition ??? You are absolutely right Steve, I referenced that in one of my earlier posts- the super wasn't designed to headspace on the mouth. Apparently those must have blown up and killed people too, because not many people are left to tell the tale of how they didn't die from having the cartridge be held by the extractor. That's attrition for you! Fortunately there are plenty of people who haven't tried it left to warn us of the dangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 WOW! I can't believe the number of complete MORONS here Call me old school, but I find it particularly distaseful when rudeness comes from a lady. MikeRush - as the ranking member of the MORON community, I would like to nominate you the Moron-in-Training! On extractor - when I started doing this, some folks have warned me that after some shots the extractor tooth would break off. I simply have not seen this happen. In fact, the only Aftec that I have even seen break, did so at one of the spring holes, and in a 9mm gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 WOW! I can't believe the number of complete MORONS hereCall me old school, but I find it particularly distaseful when rudeness comes from a lady.MikeRush - as the ranking member of the MORON community, I would like to nominate you the Moron-in-Training! On extractor - when I started doing this, some folks have warned me that after some shots the extractor tooth would break off. I simply have not seen this happen. In fact, the only Aftec that I have even seen break, did so at one of the spring holes, and in a 9mm gun. Foxbat, I have to admit, I am a little disappointed with my standing. I thought I had already achieved the rank of "complete MORON" as insinuated by the post. How can I enter into full fellowship of the brotherhood? Man, I wonder how some of these people would feel about fireforming Ackley Improved cases or other wildcats at rifle velocities and pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyshoots Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Sorry guys I was just curious to see if anyone had any experience with high round count shooting 9 in a super. I do not like the negativity. I will not be posting in this thread again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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