Jim Norman Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Like I said earlier, I have been the stats guy at our match for over 15 years. The error rate for electronics is near zero and at most matches IS zero. The error rate for the old paper score sheets, not counting my own added errors during data entry, were legion. No steel hits recorded, no time, too many hits, not enough hits, lost sheets. Barely a match would go by that I didn't have at least a few NPMs added where we all KNEW the steel was down, but it wasn't marked. I printed up a sufficient supply of single line score sheets to hand out when we first went to Palms. I handed them out and told everyone that they should record their scores JUST IN CASE. Well under 10% usage!. Now all that said, at a L-II or larger match where we have a CRO and several ROs dedicated to a stage, it is not a big problem to record the scores to a sheet and hand that back to the 'squad Mom' for dispersal to the squad. I'd still rather have a stage printer and just hand them a report as we are still introducing the chance of error when we hand transcribe the scores and that will if the shooter actually uses the paper cause us to have issues. His paper scores which are hand copied from the output of the Electronics and removed at least one step from the actual scoring are not in agreement with the electronic scoring. You want to say that the paper is correct? The ONLY way I would allow paper to be used as the actual record is if the electronic scores were unavailable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) You said paper backup were required by rule, you are wrong. Have a nice day! They ARE required by rule 9.11.2, unless you get a separate exemption from the uspsa president for each match you want to run without paper. It's written in very simple, plain english that ANYONE should be able to understand. I'M RIGHT ON THAT!! YOU HAVE A NICE DAY! Edited November 6, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 ... An email is easier than archaic paper backups that introduce a higher error rate. YES... IF you have internet wifi coverage at your range. Most ranges do not! Therefore, back to paper again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) ... Now all that said, at a L-II or larger match where we have a CRO and several ROs dedicated to a stage, it is not a big problem to record the scores to a sheet and hand that back to the 'squad Mom' for dispersal to the squad. I'd still rather have a stage printer Yeah, I'd rather have a stage printer, too. At a reasonable price. That runs all day. In all weather. Maybe someday. and just hand them a report as we are still introducing the chance of error when we hand transcribe the scores and that will if the shooter actually uses the paper cause us to have issues. His paper scores which are hand copied from the output of the Electronics and removed at least one step from the actual scoring are not in agreement with the electronic scoring. You want to say that the paper is correct? The ONLY way I would allow paper to be used as the actual record is if the electronic scores were unavailable. That's why you have and need the paper, for when (however unlikely it may be) the electronics go to hell and take the match with them. And we (South River Gun Club, Cherokee, Riverbend) still get 100% participation in filling in of backup scoresheets at all our matches, 6 stages, 40-100 competitors each. Edited November 6, 2014 by wgnoyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Bill, I commend your shooters for their diligence. We have tried it, may do so again, but in truth, I doubt I'll get compliance. That said, I understand the why. What I'd really like is to have the Nooks write to the MicroSD chip as when they save the score. If that were to happen the back-up would exist. Could that too be destroyed? Sure, but if we lose a Nook AND the chip we have a bigger problem. OK someone could dunk the nook with the chip into a bucket of water, not sure how the chip would fare, but short of that I'd say we would be secure in not having paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwren Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Jim, That's viable as far as NOOKs go, assuming people do have SD cards installed (it's not a requirement one be present, unless you need to use Dropbox). But it's also a somewhat centric solution, in that other devices, like Nexus 7 tablets, don't have an SD card slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Nor do iOS devices but I wonder if there is an adapter for the 30-pin connection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 There is, but it's intended to pull pictures into the device from a camera sd card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 There is, but it's intended to pull pictures into the device from a camera sd card. Yup I have one. So Apple in their infinite wisdom probably prevents writing to the card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 You can export to dropbox or other apps, but that of course require a connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Do I then understand correctly that if I put a card in each nook, that the scores will write? Or do I have to set something up? Are there any special 'tools' I need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Automatically? No, not that I'm aware of. But there are various save, backup, and export options that I believe require the actual storage to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Jim, That's viable as far as NOOKs go, assuming people do have SD cards installed (it's not a requirement one be present, unless you need to use Dropbox). But it's also a somewhat centric solution, in that other devices, like Nexus 7 tablets, don't have an SD card slot. The nexus7 I believe makes up for that by having a "virtual" sd card on board. I think I've plugged mine in before to a computer and had 2 external drives appear; one for the operating system and one for the virtual card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 They also, as a whole, like their paper. I have seen absolutely no anecdotal or other evidence that would support this statement -- certainly not in the past 2 years as Practiscore has gained wide acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 We have across all our matches, local and majors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 In all the matches I have run and attended, everyone prefers electronic scoring and no one has ever asked for a paper copy. If you keep people in caves, the light can be irritating, but sunlight is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Paper helped my squad at the Pro-Am match this past weekend. We had an issues where father and son have the same name and we ended up scoring the son under his father. Yes I know you can reassign scores in Practiscore but having paper record let us keep scoring the son on his paper sheet and let JC deal with it later. For a level 1 match I can see electronic only but for level 2 or higher paper backup is a wise choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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