bigarm Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I was in Cabela's and they had CCI small rifle primers on sale (400) so I bought them in anticipation of loading .223. Now I have read somewhere that you should not use those for AR's. So, is that correct? I just thought small rifle was small rifle. Guess I should have researched this. If these should not be used in an AR, what do you suggest? I guess I could use them in my 40 S & W. Is that okay? I will most likely be loading 55 grain bullets for mainly plinking and 3 gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 You're fine. Some people like the CCI 41 military because they have a litle thicker cup. Loadem and shootem bigarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC702 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I've loaded thousands of standard small rifle primers in my AR's. I've never even seen the dimple on an extracted live round like I do with M1's and M14's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davisjarrett Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Yeah no problems. You can also put the small rifle in the 40 pistol case too. Works fine with a 1911/2011 in my experience. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddKS Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I have not had any issues with CCI 400 out of the AR. That said my preference is the Remington 7 1/2. I find they produce more accurate loads for me. I load the CCI in my bang bang ammo just because I have them sitting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigedp51 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 It is recommended for the AR15 that primers with a cup thickness of .025 be used to prevent slamfires. Also note that when Remington had the contract to produce ammunition at Lake City that the 7 1/2 primer were used.(and the CCI # 41 and #34 primers were not invented yet) The Remington 7 1/2 primer are called the baby flame thrower and lit off the harder to ignite Winchester double base ball powders loaded at Lake city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Steele Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) I have not had any issues with CCI 400 out of the AR. That said my preference is the Remington 7 1/2. I find they produce more accurate loads for me. I load the CCI in my bang bang ammo just because I have them sitting around. I agree. This is what I do as well.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited September 26, 2014 by Scott Steele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoz Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Every reloading forum has had multiple discussions about which primers to use. Many people do use standard small rifle primers for .223, but most experts and the majority of long time reloaders recommend the use of a thicker cup primer such as CCI450 Small Rifle Magnum Primers, CCI41 5.56 MilSpec Primers or Rem 7-1/2 Primers, when loading for an AR or any semi auto rifle with a floating firing pin in order to reduce the risk of slam fires. They don't occur often, but they definitely do occur. The CCI41 primer was specifically developed in response to the military's request for a primer more resistant to slam fires. This is also the reason that you should never drop the bolt on a round which has been directly loaded into the chamber rather than from a magazine. MilSpec primers are more expensive, but the CCI450 usually sells for the same price or very close to the same price as standard CCI400 primers. If you're in doubt, don't take my word for it. Do some research on the subject. There's plenty of info out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I came across this online sometime back: Small Rifle Standard CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup. Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness. Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version. Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far) Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup. RWS 4033 Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures. Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds. Small Rifle Magnum CCI 450 - same thicker .025" cup as the BR4 and #41. CCI #41 - commercial version of the fully-qualified DOD primer for use in U.S. military ammo. With this primer there is more 'distance' between the tip of the anvil and the bottom of the cup than with other CCI SR primers. .025" thick cup. Same primer mix as CCI 450. Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Hornady, Handloads.com, and Chuck Hawks classify this primer as a Magnum, differing from other sources that classify it as a Standard. .025" cup thickness. Wolf/Tula Small Rifle Magnum SRM - hard, less sensitive brass cup intended for AR15/military rifle and high pressure rounds - #KVВ-5,56M. Wolf/Tula Small Rifle 223 SR223 - #KVB-223M "This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoz Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Excellent post Butterpuc. I've never seen a primer comparison chart that gives recommended use along with a description of the cup thickness. I think a lot of reloaders, especially novices, aren't aware that the primer should be matched to the gun and its intended use and that it can have a real effect on accuracy. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Been using CCI 400 for AR15's for years. Decades. No problems with slam fires. Federal SR I've had problems with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannybot Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I've had two slam fires with Winchester SR's. Upon further inspection, I don't believe they were properly seated. I think the harder primers are more likely to seat rather get squished when priming formerly crimped brass. You could also just inspect your rounds after priming to ensure proper seating of the primer before loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 only slam fire I have ever had was with a Remington 6.5 in an AR. Not the 7.5 or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Tula 223-KVB are .023, the 5.56-KVB are .025. I've read this several places but have never measured them myself. I use the 223 in 9mm and SP .45 and the 5.56 in .223. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hceuterpe Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) This is what CCI referred me to: http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primer_chart.htm Small Rifle 400 For most standard loads in cases requiring small rifle primers. 450 Mag† Magnum primer for ball propellants. No.41/5.56MM Military small rifle primer with NATO sensitivity. BR4 Benchrest small rifle primer for critical accuracy needs. As for the No41: http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30 Mil-spec sensitivity Initiator mix optimized for ball/spherical propellants Available in large (No.34) and small (No. 41) rifle Use the same data as CCI Magnum primers So I just snagged some 450 since I use H335. Edited September 29, 2014 by hceuterpe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodene 5 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Tula 223-KVB are .023, the 5.56-KVB are .025. I've read this several places but have never measured them myself. I use the 223 in 9mm and SP .45 and the 5.56 in .223. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodene 5 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Very interesting for all three ? First I have heard of that good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinny33 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Arent the CCI military primers considered MAGNUM primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoz Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Arent the CCI military primers considered MAGNUM primers? Yes, they are virtually the same primer load as the CCI 450 Small Rifle Magnum Primer, but with a slightly thicker cup to meet NATO sensitivity standards. The 450 primers have a slightly thicker cup than the 400 primers. I use CCI 41 primers because I load with spherical powders, want the decreased sensitivity to minimize the chance of slam fires AND my LGS sells them for the same price as the CCI 450's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Good info. Found this while researching info on flat primers on a load with a powder charge way below Hornady's recommended max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asr1 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 CCI 400 the way go to for my 223 works exlent and easy to find never have any issue with slam fire. Powder Vally have it most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm using CCI 400 primers but recently switched to 8208 xbr due to availability. As I laddered up my powder charges accuracy improved but I'm seeing flat primers a full grain below IMR recommended max loading for 77gr SMK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoz Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I recently read an article that said that reading primers isn't a good way to evaluate loads because they vary so much in their characteristics. Charge, cup thickness, space between anvil and cup and other factors all come into play and that makes it hard to compare apples to apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Could you be getting a pressure spike due to COL and headspace issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm using CCI 400 primers but recently switched to 8208 xbr due to availability. As I laddered up my powder charges accuracy improved but I'm seeing flat primers a full grain below IMR recommended max loading for 77gr SMK. Could you be getting a pressure spike from COL or headspace issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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