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2011 for duty carry ?

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My department is relaxing the requirement for us to carry Glock 22's, and I'm looking for input from anyone that might carry a 2011 for a duty gun. I shoot an STI limited gun so I know the system, just looking for someone with real world experience before I drop $2k on a Tactical model with a light rail.

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Other than the fact that virtually every IPSC match I go to there is ALWAYS a 1911 jamming up due to ammo, lack of lubrication, and/or lack of cleaning. They are all double stack 1911's and two of our shooters use the 2011. I know the 1911 design has been around for 100+ years and it served the US Army for years and on and on but if it were me and I had a good chance I had to rely on a handgun to defend myself in a gun fight using the .45acp cartridge it would be a SIG 220 Elite. I own STI's,CZ's.Tanfoglios, Smith & Wessons and a couple of custom 1911's for playing the games of IDPA and IPSC bit no SIGS. If I had to have a handgun chambered in 45acp to defend myself with from 2 legged assailants it would be the SIG 220 hands down. I believe it is or was the choice of the Texas Rangers.

Things have moved on since 1911.

If you can shoot a 1911 you can shoot a SIG 220.

Take Care

Bob

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I carried a SVI double stack .45 for a while. The gun ran fine, but it was the weight of the loaded gun and two extra mags that got to me. I went back to a standard 1911 in .45 acp.

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I was going to say the weight might get pretty tiresome.

If you are looking for a 1911 double stack with a lot of firepower/mag capacity, Para Ord makes a 14-45 model and a 16-40 that holds 16 rounds of .40SW.

FBI one shot stop statistics show the .40 defense loads are almost identical to .45, so you can carry more rounds and a little less weight with the .40. You can carry one less spare mag since the 16 round capacity means each mag equals two of a single stack .45

Edited by bountyhunter

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The 1911 in police work means a nightmare for the armorer. I hate Glocks, but I'd rather carry a Glock on duty than a 1911. Simple, rugged, and easy to work on. Keep in mind you get a bunch of officers carrying different guns, there will be magazine compatibility issues. It's extreme but it might happen that you run out of ammo and need a comrade to toss you a magazine. You'll be up the creek when a G22 mag comes your way and you realize it won't work in your 2011.

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Id discourage it, but if you do; use only factory magazines and followers and test them often.

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This doesn't appear to be about an armorer. This seems to be a personal gun.

.40 and 9mm are probably what I'd choose for an STI.

As far as gun design advancing since 1911, it's definitely gotten cheaper and higher capacity. Better? Not if the gun is cared for and quality. Use a flat wire recoil spring, and the maintenance schedule is about the same as any other gun.

But it's not a Glock, where you take sheet metal, stamp it, put it in a mold, and have a frame for less than five dollars. The cheapest 2011 I'd carry would be an STI gone through by Dawson.

If you can carry a 1911 you can carry a P220. If you can carry a P220 you can carry a Glock. You can carry a Hi Point. This isn't about ability. There are guns that are better but more expensive, and those which are reliable and cheap. Trying to get better and cheap is what kills you.

Edited by Haraise

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The compatible magazine has been argued for years. An old, wise veteran once told me, "Do you really think if you shot all your ammo and did not stop the threat, that I am gonna give you some of mine?" Just an item for thought.

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STI Tactical Lite? Aluminum frame with rail and less than 30 oz unloaded.

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The weight is not a great concern. Before the Glock policy was implemented I carried a Para LDA in .40.

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The only concern I would have carrying a 2011 is factory ammo. Some (perhaps many) 2011's in 40 like ammo that is loaded longer than spec (mine likes 1.180" COAL). If your gun feeds factory HP ammo you shouldn't have any issues.

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Whatever you pick needs to work 100% every single time, and you personally need to be able to use it effectively. Your ability to make bad things stop immediately with no collateral damage is paramount. After that there aren't really any more questions to ask.

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My STI & SVI both work with ammo loaded to 1.150 OAL without any problems.

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I would not consider any caliber other than .45 or .38 super, since the action is too long for 100% reliability with shorter cartridges.

Some guns do shoot fine with shorter cartridges but it's a long jump to the chamber that is best avoided.

This is the main reason why I really wish Springfield would develop the EMP into a commander and full size gun.

Edited by twodownzero

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Man I just don't know if I would trust a finicky gun like a 2011... The things with M&P, Glocks, or even XD they are made to run in every condition. Just my opinion on that.

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I've been carrying my STI Tactical 5.0 as my duty pistol for several years now, with no complaints or

reliability issues. The pistol also serves double duty as my Limited gun.

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Don't dismiss the weight issue. I'm retired now and my back is acting up. One of my other cop friends had to go to a back specialist due to back pains. The Dr told him he can tell if someone has worn a Sam Browne (gun belt) for just over one year due to back problems. It will creep up on you! I ended my career with a Colt Lt Wt Commander on my hip. Makes a big difference.

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This doesn't appear to be about an armorer. This seems to be a personal gun.

Um, no. This is about a 2011 for duty carry meaning in the official capacity of a police officer in uniform. It is to replace his issued Glock 22.

The armorer comes up because the department has to maintain the weapons their officers carry. The liability risk involved in letting an officer maintain their own weapon is huge.

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I would not consider any caliber other than .45 or .38 super, since the action is too long for 100% reliability with shorter cartridges.

Some guns do shoot fine with shorter cartridges but it's a long jump to the chamber that is best avoided.

This is the main reason why I really wish Springfield would develop the EMP into a commander and full size gun.

What about 10mm?

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I've done it, but none of them were stock STI 2011s. Years ago I carried a Tactical 5.0 in 40 and Eagle in 38 Super, both of which had reliability packages from Tripp. Since then, I've carried Infinity Widebodys in 40 and 9mm. They worked great, were very heavy and I was meticulous about mag maintenance. It is well known that the 1911/2011 platform "can" be finicky with factory length 9mm and 40S&W ammo. So, if you decide to do it, test the snot out of it first.

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Another item to consider is the increased complexity of the manual of arms of the 1911/2011 platform.

Although I have an incredible amount of time running 2011 GunStockPhotos I am very comfortable with them, I opted to stay with a striker fired platform when our agency decided to allow 1911's. when I honestly looked at all the things we may have to do while having a gun in hand I liked the idea of having a weapon system that allowed me more operational room in my thought process for all the extra situational bullshit when guns come out of holsters.

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I've got a coworker who carries one and loves it. He has had no more malfunctions than any other gun. As you are aware 1911's especially double stacks require a little more attention in the maintenance department but once that is accomplished they're work horses. I carried a custom caspian for 12 years which ran great. Now a Glock as its idiot proof and I'm kind of an idiot.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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I would not do it for a variety of reasons like cost, reliability, weight, etc.

Are you restricted to .40? If not I would check out the HK VP9 (based on reports of other people and I liking striker fired handguns) or Glock 41 (have played with personally and like)

Edited by polymerfeelsweirdman

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Consider the 9mm if you have a better gun you would rather carry. Although the 9mm is generally decried as "underpowered" based on specific misinformation in the general domain, data shows the best 9mm defense rounds are about the same as .40 and .45 ACP. If you give up a couple of percent in OSS with 9mm, you get an increase in round capacity.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

Edited by bountyhunter

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