hercster Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I get told by Benelli shooters all the time that Benelli is best and from a point of view of quality they may be right. I have seen a couple of M1's used by hard core waterfowlers die, but they were shooting heavy 3 inch steel loads. What I just cannot get past however is how much softer shooting my VM is than an M2. For me that equates to faster times. I accept that I may need to run a Benelli Hammer in mine at some stage but in any form of competitive sport the best tools are very rarely "off the shelf". That said I run my VM as it came with a new design lifter that has been polished, otherwise stock. I used the shim kits to get the fit right and now I just shoot it, so far I have shot 19 slabs (250 rounds per slab) or 4750 rounds without issue. I have had exactly two failures both were failures to eject on old 2.5 inch paper cased loads. When I see newbies on the range getting told to buy a Benelli because its the only gun I just smile as I truly believe as a mid level shooter I have a competitive advantage. I am shooting against shooters who mostly use stock guns and while most of them get points on me with the pistol I drag it back with rifle and especially shotgun. I really don't care to much for brand fanboys, (Apple users are definitely in this category) I just use what works best. To me the VM with soft recoil allows me to get fast splits and I miss less because I don't have to work so hard to stay on target. So yeah, buy a Benelli especially if you are a 3 Gun shooter in New Zealand, suits me just fine. Excellent points! I got my VMT at age 69. It was my first and likely my last Shotgun. My now 70 year old body doesn't need more than the necessary abuse. The recoil factor is important to people like me and others that may be slight of build. If I have to replace a hammer and a cam pin it's not a big deal and something I can do myself. What ever keeps me in the games the longest gets my votes. That isn't to knock the M2 one bit but I need to buy and use what suits me not some 30 year old gamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbmiester Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I have to say a large part of my purchase decision was based around being able to cycle all loads and have a soft shooting gun. We have a few guys using Stoegers in NZ and they are very reliable just like the M1/2 that they are a copy of, but they kick kick like hell compared to a VMT or even a 930. And that to me had a major influence on my purchase; the greatly reduced recoil impulse allows me to shoot faster and more consistently. As an aside my previous two guns were a Beretta 1200 FP (Inertia gun that was reliable with loads it liked) and a Benelli M4. The M4 is a great gun with a very, very smooth loading port right out of the box but the raised rifle type sights did not suit me. That said it is a very fast gun and like the VMT recoil is minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Aside from the gas operation, the VM and the Mossy are both MUCH heavier. That is a primary contributor to the difference in recoil. I am 6'3" and weigh about 240, so the recoil on the Inertia guns doesn't bother me, except with heavy slug loads. Especially when compared to the magnum rifles I hunt with. For me, the tradeoff in weight is big. I can manipulate the gun much faster due to it's light weight, and the recoil doesn't push my fat self off target far enough to be a significant factor for split times. Watch Tischauser mowing down rows of clays on youtube, and tell me the inertia gun is hurting his split times. OR, watch Patrick Kelley slamming targets with a NOVA PUMP (!) which is another lightweight butt-kicker. Teach your muscles to return the gun to proper sight picture after each shot (this requires that horrible stuff called PRACTICE) and you will probably find that the advantage does not lie strongly one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Is there anything in the way of weight reduction on the versamax? I'm not able to find any full replacement tubes done in aluminum/titanium/carbon fiber (carbon arms is just a CF shroud?), lighter forend, lighter barrel, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbmiester Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm 6'5 and 240 and its not that recoil bothers me it just slows me down, I also don't have the time or money to practice like a pro can, so in the real world the reduced recoil works for me. I run a comp on my AR like most do, I would not run without a comp as it would slow me down, thats the parallel I see with an inertia vs gas (Read VMT) system. I don't find the extra weight makes any noticeable difference in my gun handling after all its only 1lb and most of that is between the hands not out front where it actually affects swing speed. Like I said I hope my competition run Inertia guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Funny, I have run a Remington 1187 for about 15 years and just switched to a Stoeger. Before doing so I shot a friends Benelli in a couple matches as my 1187 was starting to have issues. I found the recoil easily manageable. I shot another friends 1301 and my impression and that is all it is, was that the 1301 had more recoil. The M3k so far has run everything it has been fed. Tom at MOA did a nice job on setting the gun up. I was surprised that the forearm on the M3k is about 3" longer than the Benelli, a fact that is i nits favor at least for me as I have long arms. Issues? None of consequence, I have to trim the forearm to install a QD Sling attachment, the finish on the barrel is not quite as nice as a Benelli. Not a bad trade for a $900 difference in cost. The M3k is about a full pound lighter than my 1187 and that is a 24" vs a 20" barrel. so in equal lengths it is probably even lighter. Now, if I had an unlimited or at least a larger budget would i have gone for the M2 Benelli and ll the tricks? Maybe, yes, maybe no. Some say there aren't as many gilhickies available for the M3k as for other guns. OK, I have had a trigger job, a tube, a kick-ez pad, had the loading port opened up, I am adding a match saver and a couple QD points. I am not adding an X-Rail or a Speed load ramp as I don't shoot Open, so what am I missing? I am not saying I wouldn't ever shoot a different gun (anyone looking to sponsor an old guy?) but so long as I am self-sponsored, I have to decide, match fees and ammo or more expensive gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I used to not be able to stand Benelli shotguns. I thought they where just a bunch of arrows on a stock and other stupid features that they used for the marketing of over prised guns. If inertia is really better then why is Benelli the only one using it? Right? Well anyway, I was walking through a lgs and saw a M2000 sitting on the self used for only $250. Picked it up and it was light. Figured it would be a nice light pheasant gun since it seems like all I do is walk for no reason since there aren't any birds in Iowa anymore. After a couple weeks the benefits of inertia where obvious. Lighter, soooo much cleaner, and very reliable. (I must have bought the only M2000 that actually runs) I turned the M2000 into a 3gun shotgun and it has treated me very well. Now I have a M2. As far as Im concerned the only benefit of gas guns are lighter recoil. To each there own, but to me gas shotguns are dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbmiester Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Lighter recoil would surely be considered a pretty big benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbmiester Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 In the US do you guys get these? http://www.fabarm.com/web_eng/dettaglio-prodotto.asp?i=148 Fabarms are quite popular in NZ for Waterfowling and the one I owned was very reliable and the build quality is excellent as you would expect from an Italian gun. I used a similar Fabarm for a while and regret selling it, it had a nice loading port and a clever gas system that cycled light and heavy loads reliably. It is a bit lighter than my VMT. Some one in the US should import them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 That is one nice looking shotgun, just based on the picture I'd like to try one out. Don't think we get them here though. Any idea what the price would look like in US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbmiester Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 In NZ they sell for a bout 20% less than an M2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hercster Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 With the volumes many of us shoot, the cost of the gun fades after a short time. Between ammo, accessories and everything else that goes with shooting, the gun is just a part of the financial action. The sports are such a great way to enjoy life that as long as the costs are affordable, it's a lot better than other options. To me, the biggest plus is the fellowship which is hard to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulrick Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 With the volumes many of us shoot, the cost of the gun fades after a short time. Between ammo, accessories and everything else that goes with shooting, the gun is just a part of the financial action. The sports are such a great way to enjoy life that as long as the costs are affordable, it's a lot better than other options. To me, the biggest plus is the fellowship which is hard to beat. So true. I remember when my friends looked at me funny (even the ones who shoot) when they found out how much my 3gun shotgun, rifle and pistol cost. I think I probably spend 3 times the cost of the guns on ammo and match fees per year. The gun is the cheapest part of the equation, by leaps and bounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I have this discussion with people all the time about AR Barrels. At $.40 a round, you spend at least $2,000 wearing out a CM barrel. The $50 difference in cost between CM and stainless is irrelevant over the life span of the barrel. Buy the barrel you like, don't sweat the small price difference to get an extra thousand rounds of usable barrel life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 40 cents a round?!?! I would never get to shoot at that price! I'm currently running a double stack 45acp for 3gun because it's what I have, just having to pay 17-20 bucks for a box of ammo has my pistol skills lagging way behind my rifle and shotgun game. Steel cased ammo is how I gotta roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D__ Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Nobody run the Super Vinci? Haven't seen it get any mentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Nobody run the Super Vinci? Haven't seen it get any mentions. Haven't seen a reason other than lack of an extended safety. Looks like it could just be like an AR mag release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 40 cents a round?!?! I would never get to shoot at that price! I'm currently running a double stack 45acp for 3gun because it's what I have, just having to pay 17-20 bucks for a box of ammo has my pistol skills lagging way behind my rifle and shotgun game. Steel cased ammo is how I gotta roll. That is why you have to reload in these games. I load 9mm for about .14 each and .233 for about the same, maybe a bit less (not including brass cost, but most my brass comes off of police ranges anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Yeah I'll be getting into reloading eventually, not in the budget just yet. Hopefully I can purchase my competition pistol this month then I'm all set for guns and I can start putting more green towards reloading equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haraise Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 For the Versa or Vinci, is there any standard fix to them not having youth/short stocks, for people who need them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Chop saw and a new kick-eze pad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Schmitt Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Second on Marks reply. I have cut both my M1 and Nova with a Chop saw and put kick-ez pads on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffB Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Uncle Kurt says Benelli trigger job is bad juju. As I understand it, much of the Benelli magic is contained within the individual components of the trigger group, and the act of performing a trigger job removes material, which in turn removes some of the magic. You don't want to take any magic out, do you? I can tell you that my TTI M2 trigger is outstanding. I've never felt another shotgun trigger like it. He must have added material to it because it seems to have a lot more "magic" than a stock M2 trigger! Also, I have a triangle Versa, and honestly I never could get quite as fast with it as I was with my old FNH SLP. If anybody is looking to get into a Triangle Versa, I might know someone who has one... Edited October 12, 2014 by GeoffB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 +1 on those TTI trigger springs; Waaaaaay better trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I would like to point out that changing springs, isn't a "trigger job". The TTI springs are great, but what I am referring to is stoning, changing sear engagement, depth of sear contact etc. When I say don't do a trigger job on a Benelli, that is what I am talking about! Not drop in spring changes....which the TTI part do a wonderful job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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