AR15 6.5 Grendel Load

[Graham Smith]

I'm building a new upper for my AR15 with a 20" Grendel barrel. Primary use will be for mid-range target shooting (400-600yd).

Load data for this caliber is rather confusing since it's been adopted for use in everything from 16" to 26" barreled AR's and up to 30" in bolt guns. Plus a huge array of bullet weights. Needless to say, a good load for my 20" AR is going to take some digging just to know what powder to start with.

I'm definitely liking the data on the Lapua 123gr Scenar for this gun. Anyone that's shooting this caliber in an AR that has any suggestions?

[BrianATL]

30.6 grains AA2520 123 AMAX makes 2575 in my 20" Which in my gun is exactly what Hornady factory ammo chronos. Even though the 123 scenars have a better published BC than the 123 Amax in my gun this doesn't prove out as my dope for both bullets is within .1 mil.

AA 2520 looks like unobtanium right now I will use either CFE 223 or Leverevolution when I have to change powder.

Edited September 15, 2014 by BrianATL

[Graham Smith]

A velocity of 2575 fps out of a 20" barrel would be great.

I've seen a few reports that CFE223 does pretty well. There are a couple powders I have that are on Alexander Arms list for 123's that I'm also going to try (AA2230 and H4895).

The 123 Hornady Amax and Lapua Scenar should be roughly equal in accuracy for shorter ranges but the Lapua should outperform the Hornady at some point due to the higher BC. I'm going to experiment with both since the Amax is less expensive than the Lapua.

Have you tried any of the 107gr or 108gr bullets that were popular at one time?

BTW, some references recommend magnum rifle primers, some don't. What are you using?

Edited September 15, 2014 by Graham Smith

[BrianATL]

I am using the small rifle magnum primer CCI 450. I shot couple hundred of the 108's couldn't get them going fast enough to out perform the 123's. My data is based on shooting 850-900 yard range

[Graham Smith]

OK, I've found something that helps point the way. An article that traces the evolution of the cartridge states, "The smaller Grendel has a propensity for double-base ball type propellants." And the powders that people seem to have better results with fit the bill.

Read more: http://www.rifleshootermag.com/uncategorized/6-5-grendel-evolution/#ixzz3DQ0h2tOB

So, since I have AA2230 on hand, I think that I'll start with that with some AMax bullets and see what that gets me. Then try and get some CFE223 to try out.

[wgj3]

I'm just getting into this caliber as well with a 24" AR. I've snagged some loaded ammo, some 100gr bullets, some 123 AMAX's and some Prvi brass which has large primer pockets.

I'm very interested in hearing what others are doing to make it work.

[Graham Smith]

I'm just getting into this caliber as well with a 24" AR. I've snagged some loaded ammo, some 100gr bullets, some 123 AMAX's and some Prvi brass which has large primer pockets.

There are huge differences between the 100gr and 123gr bullets. The heavier bullets are high BC bullets for longer range accuracy while the 100gr are mostly for hunting.

Grendel brass normally has small primer pockets, so you are going to have to tailor your loads to work with large primers.

Prvi brass is not very high quality so you are going to have to watch it very carefully if you are reloading. Chances are you will only be able to get 3-4 loads out of it before you see pressure signs.

And a 24" barrel will do better with a slightly slower powder while a 20" will do better with a slightly faster powder.

So, basically, any loads that might work for me probably won't work for you. Like I said, loading for cartridges like the Grendel can get complicated.

[ToddKS]

With regard to powder, IMR 8208 XBR would be the powder of choice if you can get it. 2nd choice AA2520 3rd H335. I tried RL15 but did not have much luck with it.

If you are looking for accuracy, I would highly recommend you invest in some Lapua brass and Rem 7 1/2 primers as well.

My upper has a 20" Shilen barrel.

[Graham Smith]

I don't believe I've seen IMR 8280 or RL 15 recommended before. The IMR looks to be a similar speed to AA2230 and H4895 which are on my list. I use RL 15 for my 178gr .308 and it works well, but I had no plans of trying it for a Grendel. Also, most recommendations are for magnum primers, probably because that's the general recommendation for ball powders.

As to the Lapua brass, that's also my preference. If I was shooting someplace where I couldn't get my brass back, I might think twice about that, however.

[ToddKS]

I might suggest that you visit www.65Grendel.com and www.accurateshooter.com. I believe you will find some very good information on this caliber at those sites. You will find discussions on 8208 XBR there. Finding some on the shelf may be a different challenge.

[Graham Smith]

Accurate Shooter is on my regular read list and it was some information here that first got me interested in this cartridge. I have found that they frequently deal with information more suited to bench rest shooters and/or single shot shooters. A lot of good information but not always what I need.

I've been to the 65Grendel forum before and found the comments to be an extremely mixed bag with several cases that appeared to be the blind leading the blind. Doesn't mean I don't read, just that I'm careful with what I take as fact.

[Graham Smith]

I've changed how I've been searching and am seeing XBR as a powder a lot more now. Trouble is, it's usually mentioned in conjunction with a 24" barrel and no indication if it's for a bolt gun or AR15. That last part is the most frustrating.

[DWFAN]

Have a buddy with an 18inch Grendel AR. 8208xbr and 748 have been excellent for him with 123 Amax/SSTs. (except for the temp sensitivity of 748... when it got above 90 this summer, the loads got a little warm and groups opened up)

[ToddKS]

I am running 8208 out of a 20" barreled AR. I would start at 26.0gr and work up from there.

Is it velocity data that you are looking for?

[Graham Smith]

Right now, the thing I am mainly trying to sort out is what powders to have a look at. Don't you wish that they sold 1/4 lb sample bottles of powder?

As I said, trying to sort out which might be good for a 20" AR is a bit tough since most (published) loads are for a 24" barrel which is probably a bolt gun. I'm talking about the manufacturers published loads, BTW. I'm going to take recommendations from people and see what the mfg has to say. Partly because they generally have the barrel length, COA, velocity, and pressure and I work on the basis of gathering as much verifiable information I can and then throwing out the stuff that turns out not to matter. I suspect that pressure is going to be one of those things in this case but I'm not in any rush.

The powder that I am seeing at the top of a lot of lists is AA2520. This powder is (or rather was) on my list of .308 powders to look at so it may be worth some time. But my starting point has to be AA2230 which I use for .223 and which also looks good for Grendel. CFE223 would be the first powder I don't have that I would be likely to try because it can also be used in both calibers.

My next choice would have to be 8208 XBR but I'm still bothered by the fact that I'm seeing that a lot of places as a load for bolt guns. This whole bolt gun vs AR thing is a real PITA. Way too many "recommendations" I'm seeing on other forums are too vague and often seem to be based on something someone read somewhere. Like this classic that I just copied from another forum, "I've heard Varget is the go to powder for 30 cal." Well, I've tried Varget in both my AR 5.56 and in my bolt .308 and had lousy results both times.

One real problem with loading in general is that there are often way too many choices. Unless you've got endless time and money to spend on testing (and throwing out unused powder), you pretty much have to settle for trying a couple things and then choosing one. I've used two powders (H4895 and RL15) for my .308 that are equally accurate but I like the feel of RL15 over the H4895 so that's what I use. But there may be a powder that I haven't tried that may work better - who knows.

FWIW, the load data from Accurate Arms includes a section specifically for AR15 style 6.5 Grendel tested with a 20" barrel. This is giving me some good information for comparison.

And Alexander Arms data sheet shows AA2520 as their top choice for 123gr bullets. Oddly, they have no Hornady bullets on their reloading data sheet.

[ToddKS]

Unfortunately there is no way to eliminate the risk of a component not working out. Your experience with Varget bears that out. Each barrel/rifle is different. I had a similar experience with AMAX bullets in my .308. Lots of people have success with those, I did not. My barrel just did not like that profile in any weight. It shot the Sierra's better. Starting with what you already have is always a great way to go because you are not buying something just to try it. If the load doesn't work out you are not left holding components you may never use.

I would not worry so much about barrel length and bolt gun vs. AR when looking at the data. As long as you start with a conservative load and work up the process is the same regardless of barrel length or platform type. The only additional challenge to load tuning an AR is that you are limited in your ability to tune the OAL due to the magazine length restrictions.

Let us know how this works out once you get your upper put together.

[Graham Smith]

I would not worry so much about barrel length and bolt gun vs. AR when looking at the data.

I'm not going to obsess over it but I don't want to waste time on a high pressure powder that I have to back off on, or worry about throwing a bunch of slow burning powder out the muzzle.