Questions about Holding NSSF Rimfire Challenge Matches

[ZackJones]

I filled out the feedback form on the NSSF web site a couple of weeks ago and never got a reply so I thought I'd post my questions here because I'm sure you guys know the answers . I'm the MD for USPSA steel challenge matches at our club and I've been talking with the executive committee about adding NSSF Rimfire Challenge matches. They are in favor of doing it so it looks like we'll start holding those matches in Jan 2015. Eventually I want to host a large NSSF match but want to run some monthly matches to get a feel for things.

1 - Our club is a NSSF member. Is there anything else we need to host and be able to call the matches NSSF Rimfire Challenge matches? I know with USPSA you have to register each discipline with them.

2 - I have read through the rule book and there are subtle differences between USPSA steel challenge and NSSF Rimfire Challenge but nothing too major. Given that you need to have a pistol and rifle to compete how do you guys handle it if someone shows up and only has one? Does the club provide a loaner or does someone on the squad allow the competitor to borrow or does the person only shoot those stages he can and then takes a zero for those he can't shoot?

3 - What do you charge for the match? We currently charge $10 for the first gun for steel challenge and $5 for the second. I was thinking a $10.00 entry fee and running 6 stages. We'd setup 3 stages and shoot them all with pistols and then go back through and shoot them with rifles. Is that how you guys do it or do you have different stages based on which firearm you're shooting?

4 - Match scoring - do you do it on paper? I know the iOS version of PractiScore can do it but the Android version can't. I really don't want to score on paper and then have to enter times into PractiScore but if that's the best way that's what I'll do.

5 - I know with USPSA we pay activity fees for each match. It doesn't appear NSSF Rimfire Challenge matches have any requirement for reporting match information and/or paying any activity fees, is that correct?

Finally any advice you can offer for hosting NSSF Rimfire Challenge matches would be most appreciated.

[jeffhughes]

I think the only NSSF matches are "majors". If you run steel challenge matches you can sure run a NSSF match.

Edited September 14, 2014 by jeffhughes

[photoracer]

1. As a shooter I am pretty sure you have to register with NSSF to use their name. Not sure what it costs.

2. Depends. In some states juniors are not allowed to shoot a pistol till a particular age. In that case they are scored with just the rifle. For older shooters the recommendation is to have loaners for things they don't have, at least as the monthly level and usually at the regional level also. Not at the world level however.

3. Monthly matches I have attended have ranged from 5.00 to as much as 20.00 depending on the number of stages. Recomendations for shooting a stage with both firearms is to move the shooting box or table back an extra 10 yards for the rifle. The amount is up to you. I think 35 yards is the limit distance for rifle.

4. You can use IOS or you can acquire a few Nook book readers which will run the app also. I have seen both Nooks and paper used at levels up to the regional level. World has always been paper and you sign off on the times. May change this year.

5. Not sure about that. Best thing is to ask NSSF and or email some of the MDs of the monthly match list off the NSSF event list.

And last but not least make sure the event is fun for all levels of shooters. Don't make the stages too difficult for the least experienced shooters and boring for the really good ones. The Smoke and Hope SC stage is a good one to include but throw in some wrinkles like smaller plates with different spacing or height and call it something slightly different. I have seen that in both of the regionals I shot this year each with a different flavor. Also try stages with targets at angles from each other rather than stock vertical or horizontal spacing. Tends to throw the good shooters off their game a little.

[joninwv]

For club level shoots, I don't believe you have to do anything special except to agree to use the rules as posted. You can submit your schedule online, and I would imagine someone will contact you (as they did me) just to say Hi and see if you need any help.

Read the rule book carefully, there are some significant differences in the way matches are handled between USPSA and NSSF Rimfire. No holsters for example, not even to transport pistols between stages. I've found it much more likely for someone to have a rimfire rifle than a pistol, but as long as you clearly state in your match description that both are REQUIRED, you shouldn't have any issues. Loaners are nice, but can become a hassle if you have very many shooters needing them. As much as people like to be friendly, and loan equipment, keeping a rimfire firearm running like a top is many times difficult, and people wont want to loan them to others....so the loaners might end up being things that people couldn't get to run 100%....which can be frustrating to newcomers. That's not always true, but has been my experience.

I would have to read carefully, but I don't believe you can just let a shooter take a 30 (the max time for a string) for not having a firearm. They *must* shoot each stage with the appropriate firearm(s). As already mentioned though, some places won't allow children to shoot pistols, and the rules have provisions for that.

Since you have to shoot both a pistol and a rifle to compete, I would charge a single fee for shooting both. We charge $5 at our local match, at state level matches, I've paid anywhere from $25 to $35, but there are firearms to be won at those matches The only costs you really have in a local match are cans of paint, assuming you have steel targets already.

You mention shooting in squads, but you might want to consider just putting ROs at each stage and letting people shoot at their own pace. The Kentucky State Match is run that way, and it seems to work very well. It will probably depend on how many shooters you have. If only a few, then having everyone shoot pistols, and then switching to rifles is a good scheme....you can combine both and just shoot pistols til say Noon, and then Rifles in the afternoon.

I would absolutely do match scoring electronically. That way you can have results as soon as the last shooter finishes. Having the results posted to Practiscore.com before the shooters can drive home will make you a very popular person Its something that will help your match grow as well. Oh, and the Andriod version of Practiscore is capable of doing nssf rimfire, we use it all the time.

The only advice I have about starting these matches it to explain very clearly what is expected and required of shooters. Things like "Dont get any firearms out of your vehicle until AFTER the shooters meeting" will save you a ton of problems. That way you get to explain the concept of a cold range, that the firearms must be bagged at all times, etc before you have 20+ people doing whatever seems ok to them.

Jon

[ZackJones]

photoracer and joninwv: Thanks for your replies. I'm going to try and find an email address for someone at NSSF and email them directly to get clarification before I meet with the BoD of our club to get formal approval to hold the matches. I do plan to keep the cost as low as possible, especially if we don't have to pay any kind of activity fee to NSSF to hold the matches. From what I've seen in the rule book we don't but it's also possible that stuff isn't covered in the rule book and may be covered elsewhere.

Scoring - We use Practiscore now for USPSA, Steel Challenge, and IDPA. Do you guys run your NSSF matches using the steel challenge match format? That seems to be the way to go. Just run it as steel challenge match and adjust the penalties.

Squadding - for our club matches we have a tablet per stage and as the squads rotate through the stages they score themselves. For larger matches we'll use dedicated RO's for running the shooters and scoring.

Firearms - I will make certain everyone knows you need both to compete. I actually need to get both firearms before January .

I appreciate the advice. I'm going to go try and dig up an email address for someone at NSSF and I'll let you guys know what I find out.

[joninwv]

Yes, we use Practiscore, and base it off the steel challenge. You will need to change the penalties and the categories to match NSSF rimfire rules.

Edited September 23, 2014 by joninwv

[Mark R]

If you use steel challenge match format in Practiscore it will discard the longest string. Use Time Plus instead....Time Plus keeps all times and as joninwv says...adjust your panalties and bonuses, categories and divisions as needed for your match.

Zack, We just ran a NSSF state match and I can get some details for you. PM me if you wish.

[Mark R]

Emails with details sent...hope it helps.

[ZackJones]

Most helpful Mark thanks!

[ZackJones]

Double tap.

Edited September 24, 2014 by ZackJones

[MarkCO]

Zack, I am the Match Director for the World match and I would be happy to answer any questions you have.

First, here is the website: http://www.nssf.org/rimfire/#&panel1-1

Local matches can be listed, but larger matches should be registered. There is no reason not to get a registered match and locals. You can order ammo, apply for grants, gain connections with the Corporate Sponsors and get exposure for your match. Most of what you need to know is on the webpage. One thing it is not, is just Steel Challenge with 22s, so don't use SC stages. NSSF is committed to growing the sport over the next several years. Some people ask me why I run a .22RF match, well i see it, and this sport is positioned, to bring in families, youth and women in a way no other sport has been able to. It provides the opportunity for new shooters to compete in a timer based sport with the same safety emphasis of the top tier action shooting sports.

Yes, Practiscore works, with a few tricks, but hopefully they will get the things we have asked for incorporated soon.

At a local match, you can certainly loan guns, in fact it is encouraged to do so. However, if they only have one type, they could shoot the others for no score. There are no fees to NSSF.

I will PM you the email address of Tim Norris who co-ordinates the clubs for NSSF.

[ZackJones]

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. I found an email address for Zach Snow at NSSF and he answered all of my questions. I've drafted the proposal that I will present to the club BoD next month and I see no problems getting it approved by them. Now I just need to buy a 22 pistol and rifle before January .

[ZackJones]

Quick follow up: Met with the Executive Committee last night and got the thumbs up to start holding NSSF Rimfire Challenge matches at our club starting Jan 2015. I'm looking forward to it. Now I just have to go buy a .22 LR pistol and rifle (oh darn my bad luck!).

[EEH]

Good luck finding ammo for those new toys !

[MarkCO]

NSSF has an ammo purchase program for Match Directors. We brought in 60k rounds for worlds. CCI mini mags at pre-panic prices.

[ZackJones]

NSSF has an ammo purchase program for Match Directors. We brought in 60k rounds for worlds. CCI mini mags at pre-panic prices.

The ammo purchase program was one of the big reasons I got the thumbs up so easily.

BTW, how many shooters did you have at the world shoot?

[MarkCO]

NSSF has an ammo purchase program for Match Directors. We brought in 60k rounds for worlds. CCI mini mags at pre-panic prices.

The ammo purchase program was one of the big reasons I got the thumbs up so easily.

BTW, how many shooters did you have at the world shoot?

About 160. We will likely hit 200 in 2015.

[ZackJones]

About 160. We will likely hit 200 in 2015.

Oops I was a little high in my estimate last night while discussing the match with the Executive Committee. No biggy they approved the match and that's all that matters. I've submitted our 2105 schedule to NSSF and I'm waiting for it to be approved.

[Alan550]

A BIG thank you to MarkCO & ZackJones for this thread! I've been "lurking" since about the middle of October on this one. We have been running informal SC matches at our small club here in VA for a couple years, but have only been able to run 2-3 stages due to space requirements. They are so wide that they endanger a new wall in case of misses. I checked out the NSSF web site, read the rules, looked at the CoFs and read the rules again.

Their requirements are set so we can run as many as 5-6 stages at a time! Great news! Most of our shooters had been showing up with rimfire guns anyway, and like Zack, I had NO trouble getting the events OK'd by the members at our last meeting. The ability to purchase ammo was a big factor in that decision as it was for Zack.

I went online and joined NSSF for the club ($75.00/year) and within a week got our events posted on their web site. Being located in the hills of VA, we won't get decent weather until probably March, so we'll start then. I plan to contact their ammo distributor in Mid-February about buying some to get started and see how it goes. If participation is as high as the enthusiasm was at the meeting, we'll have a good crowd.

Thanks again to Mark & Zack for getting this info out here!

Alan~^~

[ZackJones]

Although I don't think I deserve any thanks I'm glad to hear about your matches. Good luck with them and keep us posted on how things go.

[photoracer]

A BIG thank you to MarkCO & ZackJones for this thread! I've been "lurking" since about the middle of October on this one. We have been running informal SC matches at our small club here in VA for a couple years, but have only been able to run 2-3 stages due to space requirements. They are so wide that they endanger a new wall in case of misses. I checked out the NSSF web site, read the rules, looked at the CoFs and read the rules again.

Their requirements are set so we can run as many as 5-6 stages at a time! Great news! Most of our shooters had been showing up with rimfire guns anyway, and like Zack, I had NO trouble getting the events OK'd by the members at our last meeting. The ability to purchase ammo was a big factor in that decision as it was for Zack.

I went online and joined NSSF for the club ($75.00/year) and within a week got our events posted on their web site. Being located in the hills of VA, we won't get decent weather until probably March, so we'll start then. I plan to contact their ammo distributor in Mid-February about buying some to get started and see how it goes. If participation is as high as the enthusiasm was at the meeting, we'll have a good crowd.

Thanks again to Mark & Zack for getting this info out here!

Alan~^~

Let me know in what part of VA you are in and maybe one or two of us who go around shooting a lot of the Regional events will come down and shoot yours a few times. If its within 2-3 hours of Martinsburg, WV I would do at least 1 in 2015.

[mosher]

zack can you email me the proposal you used to get the matches approved at your club? also any other helpful info. I am thinking of trying to do this at our club

[ZackJones]

zack can you email me the proposal you used to get the matches approved at your club? also any other helpful info. I am thinking of trying to do this at our club

PM inbound...

[jdphotoguy]

So Zack, I assume you've been running matches by now. How are things going?

I'm looking at offering this type of match at my club. Still in the planning phase to see if there would be enough interest to get things started.

[photoracer]

Nice thing now is the latest version of Practiscore has NSSF match as an event option. As a competitor who has shot Ruger Rimfire and NSSF Rimfire since 2010 I can give you some quick design ideas. Not to mention that the giant club in the Mid-Atlantic is trying to get me to start one for them in 2016. A lot depends on the layout of your range in number of bays available and depth. I have one club I belong to that runs a 5 stage speed steel match every month out of only 2 bays and it gets done in 3 hours time with around 30 shooters (or guns as some shoot more than one). If you have few bays then consider running the rifles and the pistols at the same targets but at different distances. As long as you have the depth you can run the pistols at 15y and the rifles at 25y. Or have everyone go thru once then switch some targets around. As for stage design you have the option of using from 5-7 targets per stage. So for a quick design you can take a current or retired Steel Challenge stage and use it straight or add 1-2 extra targets. Wide open on design. They have some minimum plate size requirements but for a local match you can pretty much use whatever size you happen to have.