JonF Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 IT seems both frustrating and wasteful. I needed some TMMS and techlok's to set up my belt for multigun and i'm not seeing where the extra outer/belt plates are useful. Seems like a waste not to sell them 1:1 and now i have all these extra backers that i'm sure just drive the cost up. Anyone want to trade some small tmms inners for some outers? I would wager not since we're all sitting on a pile of spare inner plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 what is a TMMS? Spell it out the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gondo Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 IT seems both frustrating and wasteful. I needed some TMMS and techlok's to set up my belt for multigun and i'm not seeing where the extra outer/belt plates are useful. Seems like a waste not to sell them 1:1 and now i have all these extra backers that i'm sure just drive the cost up. Anyone want to trade some small tmms inners for some outers? I would wager not since we're all sitting on a pile of spare inner plates. shooters source sells them individually... plus a great place to shop to start with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 what is a TMMS? Spell it out the first time. Tactical Modular Mount System. It is Blade-Tech's solution for quick-detach of accessories. As to the OP's question, I am pretty sure the packaging predates 3-Gun. They were trying to solve the problem of moving individual accessories between multiple belts, so one outer per belt, single inner for the pouch/holster. Then along came us 3-Gunners wanting to play Mr. Potato-Head with a single Bat Belt, and we messed up their whole system. Yep, they can be found individually. Even Blade-Tech sells them that way if you look in their "Attachments" section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I agree. For some reason the set is only $13 from midway though. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/444665/blade-tech-large-tactical-modular-mount-system-tmms-set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulrick Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I run the inners on the belt upside down, and outers on the cadies/pouches... I'll take pictures when I get home, but basically I bought 5 sets, which was plenty to make my whole setup modular. Plus when you do it this way, the tabs to the inners are on top which makes removing a cinch without taking my belt off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulrick Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) EmptySetup for a typical stage using all three gunsPistol and shotgun stage with an oh sh*t weakhand caddyShotgun only-replace my holster with a slug or buck IP 2.6 Close up on the IP 2.6 that is normally use for slug or buck Edited September 17, 2014 by mulrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nzshooter1 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Does anyone here bolt the gear directly to the outer belt? I've found that there isn't all that much velcro left to hold on as well as I'd like with too many tekloks, or is it just a case of using belt keepers to hold it all up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonF Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I put patches of the heavy duty Velcro on the back of the tecklok's to fix that problem. Frankly Bladetech should include an optional patch of velcro with every techlock sold since that is the most typical use case out there. But this is the precise (and only) reason the Safariland ALS is a step above BT. Of course, teh QD nature of the techlok is advantageous in its own right. Someone needs to come up with a belt that has built in KeyMod with holsters and pouches that attach with that. Then everything is inherently QD, completely adjustable and free from "velcro retainment issues". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonF Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I run the inners on the belt upside down, and outers on the cadies/pouches... I'll take pictures when I get home, but basically I bought 5 sets, which was plenty to make my whole setup modular. Plus when you do it this way, the tabs to the inners are on top which makes removing a cinch without taking my belt off. Not sure i agree on this being a good way to approach it in general. With tabs up and mounted to belt, the removal direction is then switched to "down". Then, with the tabs on top and inside, they are more apt to be "Activated" by a lean, a big dude with a gut or any movement that might put pressure on the tab. Then, under gravity/weight, the whole assembly can simply slide downward and off the plate since that is the new direction of removal. Now it if works for you, great, but i would re-think the whole backwards and upside down thing based on that alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Actually Jon, the way Mulrick has his (yes upside down) is the best way as the attached accessory has to be moved UP to come off. The "intended way" is a terrible idea, based on exactly what you said. I ran TMMS for a year, but the locking tabs wore out too fast and I ended up twice, at FNH, with a caddie in my hand instead of two shells. I sent some brackets in to BladeTech to show them how they were failing, but they never responded at all. The polymer they use for the brackets is not a wear rated material so the failure was bound to happen. The Safariland ELS is a better system, but I hate their belt and attachment system. This year I went with a CR Speed belt with holes drilled through to take the 035 female plates from Safariland. So far, this is the best system I have been able to cobble together, but there are still some things about it that could be better, but those parts are not yet available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulrick Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) I run the inners on the belt upside down, and outers on the cadies/pouches... I'll take pictures when I get home, but basically I bought 5 sets, which was plenty to make my whole setup modular. Plus when you do it this way, the tabs to the inners are on top which makes removing a cinch without taking my belt off. Not sure i agree on this being a good way to approach it in general. With tabs up and mounted to belt, the removal direction is then switched to "down". Then, with the tabs on top and inside, they are more apt to be "Activated" by a lean, a big dude with a gut or any movement that might put pressure on the tab. Then, under gravity/weight, the whole assembly can simply slide downward and off the plate since that is the new direction of removal. Now it if works for you, great, but i would re-think the whole backwards and upside down thing based on that alone. Well the tabs face up so a gut pushing on them would only lock them in better, you need to pull the tab towards you to unlock. The removal direction is still up... so no worry of gravity doing its thing. Only thing to really worry about is the tabs wearing out as Mark said, but so far they have been reliable. I was a fan of the els system, but I like being able to quickly take a techlok off and put it on say a wilderness belt, or my backpack hip belt in a pinch is really nice. Edited September 18, 2014 by mulrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonF Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I see, he has them on the inside, closest to the body. In that orientation, the attachment has to slide up to come off. If the tab was attached to the pouch as i had originally though, it would slide down to spontaneously detach. Still, not sure why either "Tab up on belt" or "tab down on pouch" would be better than each other. Sounds like the small TMMS would benefit from the locking tab the large ones have. What are the inadequacies of the ELS belt by itself that you've observed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The safariland belt...I have seen it fall completely off to coming un-done during a stage. It is hard to secure and get the right tightness with the little studs into the holes in the belts. I still have a a few pistol, rifle and shotgun caddies on Tek-Loks for the reasons mulrick mentioned, but also, begin able to quickly borrow a mag pouch or shell caddy from like half the people on your squad if you break or lose one is a good benefit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulrick Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I see, he has them on the inside, closest to the body. In that orientation, the attachment has to slide up to come off. If the tab was attached to the pouch as i had originally though, it would slide down to spontaneously detach. Still, not sure why either "Tab up on belt" or "tab down on pouch" would be better than each other. Sounds like the small TMMS would benefit from the locking tab the large ones have. What are the inadequacies of the ELS belt by itself that you've observed? Not many, I think it is a great system, but it does seem to limit you to safariland stuff, and I am a big fan of bladetech holsters... that and I already had a bunch of techloks from before I shot 3-gun. I find it hard to get tight and locked securely for me. Granted I am 6' tall and an athletic 162lbs with a 31-32" waist, so I had a hard time getting the little studs that hold the belt on to lock securely. Also because the els screw directly to the belt, you need to either have a ton of mounting plates all around the belt, or you need to bust out the screwdriver to change something aroundif it isnt working for you on that stage. With a techlock, i can just take the belt off and move a caddy or pouch to a new spot. At the end of the day, they all have their benefits, but techlocks with velcro on the back was the most secure for me, and distributed the weight nice and evenly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I think I have 2 Safariland rifle mag pouches, never have used them. I use BladeTech holsters, pistol pouches, rifle pouches and of course Carbon Arms pinwheels, mounted to the CR belt with Safariland ELS attachments...best of all worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 My favorite set up for holsters is using a large TMMS attached to a ELS belt with two extra holes drilled in it so I get 4 screws. I wish the ELS belt were a bit more ridged and the ELS hooks don't rattle quite so much but being able to bolt directly to the belt makes it worth it for 3 gun. Making your inner belt helps a lot for reliably getting your outer belt to hook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhunt91 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Mark how did you setup that cr speed belt with the els attachments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhunt91 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 looking to setup a second belt and that seem interesting since i alread have all the ELS gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Mark how did you setup that cr speed belt with the els attachments? Drilled holes through it for two of the screws to attach an 035 bracket. Works like a charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhunt91 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 no pull thro or anything like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonF Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 What do you guys mean when you refer to difficulty in aligning studs and securing the belt? Does the ELS belt not have the typical inner/outer velcro mating arrangement? Or is it some variation on a buckle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulrick Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 It still has an inner and outer using velcro, but the outer has much less velcro surface area to attach and uses two little metal studs that go through the holes on the belt... instead of say a nice big long piece of velcro that has plenty of surface area of loop material. This picture shows it pretty well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 no pull thro or anything like that? Nope. Here is was with TMMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonF Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 I see now. With all those pre-drilled holes along the entire length of the belt, there is much less velcro surface area to begin with. Ever feel like you are "in-between" holes for the belt studs too? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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