SicSTi Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Not going to get into the M2's issue with the whole shooting high thing cause we all know they suck at POA/POI, but I want to know what sights people have chosen to fix the issue. I know some us Hi Viz sights or the Champion easy aim, but if there are any others please let me know. I'm looking for something that will help with the POA/POI being close to dead on with both SHOT AND SLUGS, isn't a red dot as I plan on shooting Tactical - Limited, and makes shooting slugs at 50-100 yards a hell of alot better instead of aiming at the bottom or below a target. Thanks in advance for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striped1 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 best bet is to find a gunsmith with the alignment tool that will square the mag tube with the barrel. This will significantly improve the poa/poi issue and doesn't require barrel bending which is how it used to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) See from what I have heard it isn't a mag tube or barrel issue, its a tapered barrel rib issue combined with factory sight height. The rib on the barrel tapers because the guys across the pond that shoot skeet are more about being able to track a clay pigeon underneath it verse being right on it. So Benelli's standard is a 21 yard shot, aiming at the bottom of the bullseye and if the center of the shot lands 6-9" above the point of aim with a 60/40 spread, they call it good. Again, American shooters however are more prone to going for the 50/50 POA/POI vs the foreigners who basically want POA = 6-9"+ on POI Edited September 7, 2014 by SicSTi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 So what I'm asking is have people had luck with adding a magnetic rib clipped sight to the Benelli like Hi Viz Comp sight and fixed the issue and if so which sight was it and what was the factory design height of the sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gondo Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 yeah of course you need a good sight, the hi viz is probably the most popular... not the magnetic crap though (seriously you think that will stay on in a dump bucket?), but striped1 told you the right answer, you need to send it to accurate iron or benny hill, i think steve rose may possibly have kurt millers tool as well, your only choice now is will you listen lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhill Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Actually, the alignment tool works very well. I use it on all our M2 builds and have yet to have any problems. We also install the HiVis front sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) You are very misinformed formed!! America shooters want the shot and slugs to hit right at point of aim, point of impact at 50 meters. That is why I made the GAUGE!!!! If you believe it or not is really immaterial! Wether other folks in other countries believe it or not is also immaterial. It works just as designed. Tapered barrel?? You need to hang out at a different gunshop! Edited September 6, 2014 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 ... English? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Scandinavian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prreed10 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I had a gunsmith dovetail a Dawson 1911/2011 front sight and an XS Rear into the rib OD my Benelli. Slug accuracy has since increased exponentially. Here is a pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOOM Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Thanks for the Pic's (Prread10) Really like your sight set up especially the dove tail Dawson front sight. Clean very Clean. This is on my wan't list. Couple of questions ? Whats the height of your sights, and zero distance, and how much was the work, and sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Nice, see I was thinking of doing something like that but it would be nice to have adjustable sights somehow. I love the Benelli but at time I wish I would have went a different route, I dont like relying on a guessing game to hit something even if thats how they designed the thing to shoot high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 But I've seen that done before with the dovetail cut, and I was maybe thinking of doing that same thing but using a ruger 10/22 sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 You are very misinformed formed!! America shooters want the shot and slugs to hit right at point of aim, point of impact at 50 meters. That is why I made the GAUGE!!!! If you believe it or not is really immaterial! Wether other folks in other countries believe it or not is also immaterial. It works just as designed. Tapered barrel?? You need to hang out at a different gunshop! The ribs on the barrel are tapered for the reason I stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Well, no, they are not. To start with the M2 is built as a field gun, not a skeet or trap gun. For every one you say shoots high, I can show you ones that shoot low. Benelli builds the M2 as neutral as they can, but due to a couple of assembly problems they may or may not be. All M2 are tested before leaving Italy and they must fall within an acceptable range, both high and low with an I.C. choke, and a "B" cast and camber shim in the Stock. You might not know that I have spent a lot of time with Benelli M1 and M2 barrels, and have spent a lot of time with the Benelli design engineers discussing this very subject, but I can assure you they don't taper, and they are not set up to shoot high. The gun you wish you had'nt bought may very well be "high", but not for any of the reasons you stated. Nor are they true for all M2 shotguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prreed10 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Thanks for the Pic's (Prread10) Really like your sight set up especially the dove tail Dawson front sight. Clean very Clean. This is on my wan't list. Couple of questions ? Whats the height of your sights, and zero distance, and how much was the work, and sights. Just getting back from Generation 3gun - I can't remember the height offhand but I'll check. Zero is 50 yards and I hold the dot high for 100. Unfortunately the guy who did mine is no longer taking the work, but there are others around that do something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gondo Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) You are very misinformed formed!! America shooters want the shot and slugs to hit right at point of aim, point of impact at 50 meters. That is why I made the GAUGE!!!! If you believe it or not is really immaterial! Wether other folks in other countries believe it or not is also immaterial. It works just as designed. Tapered barrel?? You need to hang out at a different gunshop! The ribs on the barrel are tapered for the reason I stated. well its obvious you learn stuff the hard way, you got a benelli guru on here telling you how it is and you are disputing decades of knowledge for what? and yeah you can put some adjustable sights on your gun and get a slug to hit where you want...probably.... but that is not the best way, ive done it and can tell you its not for a fact... listen to dhill or kurtm on this, im done with this thread. Edited September 8, 2014 by gondo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Well, no, they are not. To start with the M2 is built as a field gun, not a skeet or trap gun. For every one you say shoots high, I can show you ones that shoot low. Benelli builds the M2 as neutral as they can, but due to a couple of assembly problems they may or may not be. All M2 are tested before leaving Italy and they must fall within an acceptable range, both high and low with an I.C. choke, and a "B" cast and camber shim in the Stock. You might not know that I have spent a lot of time with Benelli M1 and M2 barrels, and have spent a lot of time with the Benelli design engineers discussing this very subject, but I can assure you they don't taper, and they are not set up to shoot high. The gun you wish you had'nt bought may very well be "high", but not for any of the reasons you stated. Nor are they true for all M2 shotguns. Going off exactly what the 2 people at Benelli told me, whether they are right or not, all the info I had until this point was from Benelli and only Benelli. However, if the ribs on the M2 go from high to low, from chamber to muzzle respectively, how is that not a tapered barrel rib as apposed to a mossberg with a rib that is parallel with the barrel from chamber to muzzle?? Second, people like Gonzo just making a douchebag type post with no useful info doesn't help this discussion either. I'm 5 posts into this forum and have no clue who the hell KurtM is but I'm just magically supposed to take a random persons word over something I was told by 2 different people at Benelli? Regardless, this is why I came in here was to get the truth and figure out how to solve my issues. Edited September 8, 2014 by SicSTi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Who at Benelli told you this? Please P.M. me their names. Sometimes The sales staff doesn't get all the info they need. I shot for Benelli for 4 years and was one of 3 people who designed the Benelli 3-gun M2. There are 3 changes on the M2 from the M1 that are directly influence by me. If you care to measure from centerline of the bore to the front and back of the rib you will find it very square. As for jumping all over Gondo. It,s just fine that you don't know anyone here, and don't believe what you are told. I myself am big on verifying I interweb info. BUT look at it from the other side, you posted info that we all know to be false, and did it in such a way as make yourself sound like the last word on the subject. Now no one on here knows who you are either, why should we believe you and why do you wonder at the reaction you got? Now I really would like the names of the people you talked to. Even though I no longer shoot for Benelli I still believe in the product, and still care enough to make sure they are doing it right! Edited September 8, 2014 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Who at Benelli told you this? Please P.M. me their names. Sometimes The sales staff doesn't get all the info they need. I shot for Benelli for 4 years and was one of 3 people who designed the Benelli 3-gun M2. There are 3 changes on the M2 from the M1 that are directly influence by me. If you care to measure from centerline of the bore to the front and back of the rib you will find it very square. As for jumping all over Gondo. It,s just fine that you don't know anyone here, and don't believe what you are told. I myself am big on verifying I interweb info. BUT look at it from the other side, you posted info that we all know to be false, and did it in such a way as make yourself sound like the last word on the subject. Now no one on here knows who you are either, why should we believe you and why do you wonder at the reaction you got? Now I really would like the names of the people you talked to. Even though I no longer shoot for Benelli I still believe in the product, and still care enough to make sure they are doing it right! I dont know the names of the people, I just called and went through all the automated crap til I got someone and they transferred me to someone to answer my questions. Also, I will go home measure it with a digital caliper, take pics of the caliper and post them so you can see what I'm talking about. Also I dont know if this makes a difference but mine is a standard m2 field, not the 3 gun M2. Edited September 8, 2014 by SicSTi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Ok here are the pictures. Wasn't getting too scientific but using the caliper as a general reference to the eye put the camera angles are goofy but you can see with it that there is a general decrease in rib height in relation to the axis of the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 I did it on the highest setting so you can click on the first pic and it will zoom in and you can even measure it on ur computer screen. Wont be exact scale but you get what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 You weren't by chance questioning why yours was high with slugs were you? Unless you got transfered to the gunshmiths....who by the way bought one of my guages.....you got a guy just trying to make you happy with an answer so he wouldn't have to issue a recall tag for a gun that meets the + or - spec. Hence my gauge, which gets rid of the + or the -. Now just so you know, I DON'T OFFER ANY SERVICES FOR ADJUSTING POA/POI. I really don't care if you get anything done to your gun in the way of alignment, I don't get a dime if you do or don't. But I will tell you in general getting it aligned is cheaper than buying sights and getting them milled in. Either way have fun with it. BTW don't bother measuring the back of the rib and then the front and saying "see I told you so" as the centerline of the bore MUST take into consideration the center line of the receiver and extension and how they join together. Any old way the M2 3-gun is on the M2 Field mod with a STOCK barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Wow you are industrious you were measuring away as I was typing. Can't call the handguard the centerline either, but no biggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSTi Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Oh i wasn't... it was just how I layed it down to take a picture and give u a rough estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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