Gary Stevens Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 The BOD has voted to allow my idea of a "Provisional 1911 Single Stack Division" to move into the next phase. That phase will be to formulate rules, and procedures to present to the BOD by 3-1-05. In addition to myself, Area 7 Director Rob Boudrie, and Area 4 Director Ken Hicks, will be working on this issue. This does not mean that the final product will be accepted in any form, modified or otherwise. It is in a study and rule formulation process at this point. Should the "Provisional Division" be accepted, one concept would be for it to exist on the USPSA webpage in cyber land. If a club or match were to be interested in this, they could go to the webpage, download the rules and procedures and begin shooting it. No club or match would be forced to use this "Provisional Division" if they did not wish to. Consider it a demonstration of interest venture. It would hopefully be driven by member interest and by USPSA. It would also open up avenues for cross over from other shooting sports, and gun manufacturers that are not fully represented in our current configuration. Interest would be monitored by USPSA and after a period of perhaps 2-3 years, a decision would be made as to permanent status or to abandoned the testing of the division alltogether. As a starting point we are looking to the Single Stack Classic rules for a baseline. Some small modifications will potentially be made to them such as using the Production Division holster and mag pouches positions for consistency sake since they are withing a couple of inches either way. I urge you to contact me with your suggestions, after reading the SSC rules at www.1911society.org and I will make sure my other committee members are also made aware of your suggestions. Thanks in advance. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Gary, Does this mean that L-10 will be left “as is”, intact and unaltered? If so, good luck with your new division! If not, for me it’s HELLO Limited Division! Ed Dedicated Limited-10 and single stack 45 shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 L-10 is not conected to this venture in any way, shape or form. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 WAY COOL! That’s EXACTLY what a whole bunch of us SS L-10 guys have been waiting to hear! A single stack WITH race gear is our passion!!!! Whew, I can breath again... Good luck, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Gary: I sent some criteria to Rob Boudrie that myself and another club administrator instituted at our local club after the AWB and before the advent of L10 Division. I'm certain he'll forward them to you if you so wish. They are in fact active at a local club that chooses not to affiliate with USPSA (I've tried to convince them to but to no avail) and have seen a fair bit of success over the past 4 years. Thanks for keeping L10 and Production "intact" , it's GREATLY appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdt Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 After reading the SSC rules it would appear that race gear is not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Nope, you have L-10 for the race gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Awesome. While I don't think it will have the immediate huge numbers like the three gun tactical division, it expect it to be big. I certainly plan on shooting in it. Thanks Gary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierruiggi Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 How about proposing this to IPSC in addition to USPSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 17, 2005 Author Share Posted January 17, 2005 Let me get the wheels on the USPSA wagon first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipplehead Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) Hey Love the idea of single stack division Hate the idea of stock type holsters and mag pouch positions and since much of the fun in USPSA is high round count, leave it at 10 not 8 We want to use our race gear. Edited January 18, 2005 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipplehead Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 WAY COOL! That’s EXACTLY what a whole bunch of us SS L-10 guys have been waiting to hear! A single stack WITH race gear is our passion!!!! Whew, I can breath again... Good luck, Ed I'm with you and so are many many more!!!!! Hey BTW downloading limited guns is weak shoot to capacity or go home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I have been wanting the L10 to get changed to 1911 for years, even more so with the ban sunset. IF L10 stays alive on its own then why not keep it. I do think we need a division thats honors where we came from. I can even live with the holsters and positions. One thing I think will be a problem, just like 1911 society found out is that you need to limit it to 8 rounds. If you go by mag length then there will again be a race to see who can get the most bullets in the mag. I just think if we settle on 8 round mags and play it will be more accepted. I for one will build a new 45 to play in this game. Is there a factory 45 ammo that comes in around 165 pf? maybe set the PF around where most factory is at so we can use factory to play. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Guys, don't drag the L-10 issue into this, it has no place here. This will not be a 1911 L-10 division. You already have that if you wish to shoot your 1911 in that division. If you look at the USPSA Production Division, the SSC rules, and the IDPA CDP/ESP divisions, you will have a pretty good idea of what I hope this division looks like in some combination of the three. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'd be fine with those proposed rules except that I'd want to use a race holster and mag pouches unrestricted to position on the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Gary, Thanks for picking up the guanlet on this issue. I like the idea of a Single Stack Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 When I started this was all I had (no race stuff), and it was fun sounds great to me!!!! I was thinking about a new single stack anyway. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I dont think it should be a division where there is a equipment race. If you want to do that you have OPen, Limited , L10. Even production to a point. It should be kept simple so we can enjoy shooting the 45 1911. If others want to shoot 9mm, 40 , 10mm etc then ok but as long as its not an advantage to shoot anything other than a 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Thanks for doing the leg work on this, Gary. I like the idea! Keep the mag capacity limited to 8 rounds regardless of caliber, and stay with Production-like holster and mag carrier criteria. Otherwise, it's just L10 again (which I enjoy plenty, but this should be......different). ...Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Well let me stir this pot a bit The SSC rules allow major power factor at .400 caliber and above, but they limit the magazine capacity for major to 8+1 rounds. They also allow up to 10 rounds in a standard length magazine for 9mm and 38 super, but restrict them to minor power factor. You could also shoot 9 rounds of 40 at minor power factor. I actually like this as it gives the shooter an option. Score major with 8+1 or score minor with 9+1 or a 10+1. Makes you think a bit. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 This sounds awesome! How are the HHF's going to be calculated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 That is awesome Gary! I sure hope your plans spill over to us in IPSC land. I've always loved shooting the singlestack and would welcome something like this if ever IPSC adopts it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 As they say, the Devil is in the details. At this time I am trying to get the provisional rules down in some form. I have Dave Thomas working on the classification issue and how it might impact the database. One possible, and I only mean possible, approach would be to assign the lowest classification to this venture. Considering that your lowest classification can't be more than one class down from your highest classification, I don't think this is a real problem. As to the classifiers, one could possibly run them as we run L-10 right now. I can't see how a 1911 division with the holster and mag pouch restrictions, along with fewer rounds would artifically bump a L-10 shooter up. In short, I am working on rules now, and will work on procedure after that. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Thanks for your efforts Gary and the rest of the BOD. I like the SSC rules pretty much to the letter. However I think we need another division like a hole in the head. Since this is going to be provisional or experimental or whatever, how about making it a category in L-10. The divisions we have now are already a strain on everything. I was a proponent of SS instead of L-10 but not in addition to. We've got enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Yes ... yes ... a Single Stack Division IN ADDITION TO Limited10 ... very good ... very good ... The 1911 Society Rules on how many rounds you can load are excellent and I think the new USPSA SS1911 division adopt them (i.e. 8+1 max for major; 9+1 for minor .40/10mm, and 10+1 for 9xXXmm). Good thing I ordered that quad mag carrier from Blade-Tech if we're going to have a holster position rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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