Grand Power in the US: best time to purchase?

[cpa5oh]

Something is wrong. I measured mine at 2.5 stock.

GrandPower K100?

Or are you talking about the XCaliber?

Edited November 15, 2014 by cpa5oh

[NicVerAZ]

Something is wrong. I measured mine at 2.5 stock.

GrandPower K100?

Or are you talking about the XCaliber?

Sorry. I have been shooting a boutique single stack with a sub-2lbs trigger. You are correct.

[MikeRush]

Since most of the users are shooting under IPSC rules, it's factory parts only.w

For other uses, you can remove the spring cap retaining the standard hammer spring.

For the recoil spring, it comes with two lighter coil springs for most ammo, and the flat metal spring used in the K100 for hotter ammo.

So other than trying to source and install an Excalibur trigger group there isn't anything that can be done to the trigger for IPSC? No factory reduced springs like the CZ? If so I'll get used to it, but my 2011 trigger breaks at just under 1 3/4 lbs- I know not to expect that out of a Prod gun but my sample does seem a bit heavy.

[P.E. Kelley]

I am only an A in Production but I think the trigger is just fine.

[MikeRush]

I am only an A in Production but I think the trigger is just fine.

Agreed that it is manageable for sure, nice reset, smooth DA, no stacking... I like the reset much better than the CZ.

I don't need to pop military primers in a trench in the rain though. I have adapted to "heavy" pulls before, guess its time to get the old index finger strengtht up. If there was a lighter spring available, I'd like to experiment. On the CZ the factory mainspring could drive a pencil almost to minor PF (feels just like shooting a 147), and the 13 lb lights off "hard" CCI primers with plenty of power.

[P.E. Kelley]

Don't get me wrong, if I decided to campaign the K100 I would tweak it a bit too!

[safado]

as someof you guys may know.. j&g has the p1 for 299.. for black friday.. probably as clearance from Century... I am happy to see grand power leaving Century.. they sucked at promoting them.. hopefully Eagle does them good.. Speaking of Eagle.. are the firearms available already from them?

Also... whats the difference between the Mk7 frame and the Mk12?

[NicVerAZ]

as someof you guys may know.. j&g has the p1 for 299.. for black friday.. probably as clearance from Century... I am happy to see grand power leaving Century.. they sucked at promoting them.. hopefully Eagle does them good.. Speaking of Eagle.. are the firearms available already from them?

Also... whats the difference between the Mk7 frame and the Mk12?

$299 for a P1 is a good deal. A Kahr is more expensive than that, although the P1 is not a subcompact but it makes a nice self-defense pistol.

When I asked J&G about carrying the XCalibur they made it clear they did not want to sell GPs any longer. I am pretty sure they are going to sell them close to cost pretty soon.

The MK12 gets away with the creative but awful in the long run take down mechanism in the trigger guard. There is such a thing as over-engineering. Not sure about the other differences.

[Canuck223]

Eagle Arms have some product right now and an order shipping if it's not already left.

The problem at the moment is getting distributors that are clogged with slow moving product to take on a new line and place meaningful orders.

All the big distributors have signed on, and momentum is building. I suspect once the distributors track the time in inventory the order volume will ramp up nicely.

[NicVerAZ]

Eagle Arms have some product right now and an order shipping if it's not already left.

The problem at the moment is getting distributors that are clogged with slow moving product to take on a new line and place meaningful orders.

All the big distributors have signed on, and momentum is building. I suspect once the distributors track the time in inventory the order volume will ramp up nicely.

Great news! Good job!

I will have my favorite retailer harass the distributors starting tomorrow until one accepts to sell him a couple units.

[Canuck223]

So for the Mk7 vs Mk12 frames.

The big difference is in the takedown system.

As much as I liked the older takedown system, it could cause problems for some users.

Some folks would pull the trigger guards down like it was a lever, cracking the grip.
Some folks would not fully lock the trigger guard which pounds the shock buffer into the grip, cracking the frame.

The Mk12 has a solid trigger guard and is much more solid when mounting accessories to the included rail.

It is also contoured more under the trigger guard for an even higher grip.

Inside there have been some updates and the geometry and precision of the sears and hammers have gone from superior to superb.

My Mk12 X-Calibur came out of the box with a trigger that feels nearly as nice as my well honed Mk7.

[safado]

nicveraz, who are you talking to about getting the MK12s? hmm I'm thinking now just to wait for the mk12s...but the 299 is tempting...

Edited November 27, 2014 by safado

[NicVerAZ]

AJI is my shop in Mesa.

We are talking about the XCalibur MK12, been waiting for it to show up for 2 years.

Race gun, fluted 5" barre, E/W adjustable rear sight, FO front sight. The P1 is a shorter version of the K100.

http://www.grandpower.eu/kategoria-14-clanok-22-detail-x-calibur-#ad-image-0

[NicVerAZ]

Do we have a vendor yet?

[Kingman]

On the way to NJ when I asked today.

[phucheneh]

I bought two P1's for about $350, maybe 5 or 6 months ago. Had a feeling it was the last hurrah for the cheapo Century imports. I hate that I missed out on adding a $329 K100 to the collection. I think JG was the last place with the Mk7's in stock.

I've been waiting excitedly for the chance to purchase an X-Calibur or K100 X-trim...just found the first indication of the Mk12 line in the US that I have seen:

http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/KeywordSearchResults.aspx?kw=grand%20power

But man, look at those MSRP's. Hope street price is a lot less...I mean, the guns are totally worth it. IMO, even at list, they're a better gun than their price competition. But...I just don't tend to drop that kinda cash on firearms. $865 for the X-trim and a cool grand for the X-Calibur. Yowza. $629 for the standard K100 is a lot more reasonable...I don't see why the X-trim should be ~$250 more.

[Canuck223]

Being sceptical isn't a bad thing. Try the X-Cal and X-Trim back to back with the K100. You'll quickly figure out which one has to come home with you.

[Kingman]

I'm not so patiently waiting on my xcal. I've never shot one yet, but am excited.

[Stan-O]

But man, look at those MSRP's. Hope street price is a lot less...I mean, the guns are totally worth it. IMO, even at list, they're a better gun than their price competition. But...I just don't tend to drop that kinda cash on firearms. $865 for the X-trim and a cool grand for the X-Calibur. Yowza. $629 for the standard K100 is a lot more reasonable...I don't see why the X-trim should be ~$250 more.

I think it all comes down to the CNC machining time. X-Cal and X-Trim slides require more time in CNC than the basic K100s. I haven't checked all the listings from your link, but at least in Canada the X-Trim also came with the FO front sight and an adjustable rear sights, not the standard 3-dot ones. X-Cal came with FO front and Elliason rear.

I was lucky enough to be able to order a customized X-Cal and all in it was about $1,100.

[Canuck223]

The X-Trim has the Dynamic rear sight which is adjustable for windage. The X Trim and X-Cal also come standard with bigger mag button. The barrel/slide/ frame fit is geared for sport with tighter tolerances. It's a lot more than just a few simple cosmetic upgrades.

But like I said, have a look at them side by side and if possible test drive them.

Don't be shy about snapping up one of the older versions. If you love it, you are not likely going to regret upgrading down the road.

[NicVerAZ]

I bought two P1's for about $350, maybe 5 or 6 months ago. Had a feeling it was the last hurrah for the cheapo Century imports. I hate that I missed out on adding a $329 K100 to the collection. I think JG was the last place with the Mk7's in stock.

I've been waiting excitedly for the chance to purchase an X-Calibur or K100 X-trim...just found the first indication of the Mk12 line in the US that I have seen:

http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/KeywordSearchResults.aspx?kw=grand%20power

But man, look at those MSRP's. Hope street price is a lot less...I mean, the guns are totally worth it. IMO, even at list, they're a better gun than their price competition. But...I just don't tend to drop that kinda cash on firearms. $865 for the X-trim and a cool grand for the X-Calibur. Yowza. $629 for the standard K100 is a lot more reasonable...I don't see why the X-trim should be ~$250 more.

These are MSRPs, which are recommended prices and are usually much higher than the street price. Vendors are obligated to provide the MSRP but what matters is the cost. No idea what the cost is but the $600-650 range sounds reasonable. Street price should be in the $800-850 range plus fees and taxes. Retailers need to make a buck.

Again, this is not the K100/GP6. The K100 is fun to shoot but on those long range classifier shots, it has a shotgun pattern at 115ft when the same shooter (me) has no issues hitting the A zone at the same distance with a Trojan 5.

The K100 rocks when shooting fast at close to medium range, because it is amazingly easy to transition and stays on track. Which is why I can wait for the X-Calibur since it brings accuracy to an already fun platform.

Is it better than one of Angus' CZ? Not sure, but I don't have $2500 to put on a production gun to find out.

[phucheneh]

Like I said, I'm surely not knocking the guns or the prices. Just stating the obvious: it's a big step up for a guy like me who basically tends to collect cheap-but-good guns. And likes to tinker with them. I think there are eight 9mm's in the room with me right now, and none set me back very much. The priciest would actually be my steel Jericho, a.k.a. the 'clone clone'. Heh.

I took a chance on my P1; thought it was interesting and too affordable to not try out. I immediately bought the other because I feared I may not get another chance; Century seemed to be clearing inventory and the Eagle arrangement had not come to fruition yet...figured I might as well have spare parts and a spare Mk7 'platform' that I could maybe mod down the line if I didn't get to buy something bigger and badder. Of course...spare parts are no longer a concern...this gun is just not going to break. I have to have 1000 rounds down it (I know, that's not much to a lot of you) and I can't even see any discernible wear.

I have slowly gone from 'hey, this thing is pretty good' to 'my god, this gun is fantastic and Jaroslav is an engineering GENIUS!'...I really, REALLY appreciate cleverness. I'm always nitpicking design flaws and being 'that guy' who thinks he could do everything better...but when it comes to these guns, I've got nothing. They really make everything else kinda look bad. Nothing touches the trigger...yet, it also ignites the hardest primers on the market. Every time. The rotating barrel is the most fluid lock-up mechanism I've ever seen. The execution of the recoil buffer means even Tanfoglio couldn't make a slide that would crack. And said buffer is replaceable. Ect ect.

However, I guess I did not realize that the X-Cal was as different as it is. I knew that the hammer mech was a little different (no FPB and a little different geometry, right?), but that was it, other than what is clearly visible. Didn't know slide or barrel fitment was tighter. Is the barrel internally different, as well? No polygonal rifling, right? But deeper lands or anything like that? For that matter, I was also wondering if the X-trim is closer to the X-Cal or closer to a normal K100...is it the same FPB-less setup as the X-Cal?

Unfortunately, I doubt I'll ever get to handle either in person if I don't just buy one. The most exotic you'll see around here are mid to low-end Tanfoglios...and I only know of one shop that even carries that. It's a shame, considering how you see something like a Glock so talked up and doted on...there's nothing wrong with them, but there's also nothing that makes them special. OTOH, I think GP is easily the most [successfully] innovate line of guns to come around in decades.

[NicVerAZ]

Well, this is a hobby which requires a comfortable budget to be really fun, although you can probably play in the Production division with a cheap but reliable gun.

Now why have eight 9mm pistols when all you need is one?

Sounds to me like you should be able to take care of the price tag issue that comes by selling most of them.

Are you talking about the Tristar T120 as the "clone clone"? Read some good things about it.

[Canuck223]

Like I said, I'm surely not knocking the guns or the prices. Just stating the obvious: it's a big step up for a guy like me who basically tends to collect cheap-but-good guns. And likes to tinker with them. I think there are eight 9mm's in the room with me right now, and none set me back very much. The priciest would actually be my steel Jericho, a.k.a. the 'clone clone'. Heh.

I took a chance on my P1; thought it was interesting and too affordable to not try out. I immediately bought the other because I feared I may not get another chance; Century seemed to be clearing inventory and the Eagle arrangement had not come to fruition yet...figured I might as well have spare parts and a spare Mk7 'platform' that I could maybe mod down the line if I didn't get to buy something bigger and badder. Of course...spare parts are no longer a concern...this gun is just not going to break. I have to have 1000 rounds down it (I know, that's not much to a lot of you) and I can't even see any discernible wear.

I have slowly gone from 'hey, this thing is pretty good' to 'my god, this gun is fantastic and Jaroslav is an engineering GENIUS!'...I really, REALLY appreciate cleverness. I'm always nitpicking design flaws and being 'that guy' who thinks he could do everything better...but when it comes to these guns, I've got nothing. They really make everything else kinda look bad. Nothing touches the trigger...yet, it also ignites the hardest primers on the market. Every time. The rotating barrel is the most fluid lock-up mechanism I've ever seen. The execution of the recoil buffer means even Tanfoglio couldn't make a slide that would crack. And said buffer is replaceable. Ect ect.

However, I guess I did not realize that the X-Cal was as different as it is. I knew that the hammer mech was a little different (no FPB and a little different geometry, right?), but that was it, other than what is clearly visible. Didn't know slide or barrel fitment was tighter. Is the barrel internally different, as well? No polygonal rifling, right? But deeper lands or anything like that? For that matter, I was also wondering if the X-trim is closer to the X-Cal or closer to a normal K100...is it the same FPB-less setup as the X-Cal?

Unfortunately, I doubt I'll ever get to handle either in person if I don't just buy one. The most exotic you'll see around here are mid to low-end Tanfoglios...and I only know of one shop that even carries that. It's a shame, considering how you see something like a Glock so talked up and doted on...there's nothing wrong with them, but there's also nothing that makes them special. OTOH, I think GP is easily the most [successfully] innovate line of guns to come around in decades.

Thanks for the kind words.

The FPB is used on duty guns and omitted on the sporting models. (Or in the case of the US, on subcompact models if we need additional points.)

The sporting models are just held to tighter tolerances. No funky rifling.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Canuck223

[phucheneh]

Well, this is a hobby which requires a comfortable budget to be really fun, although you can probably play in the Production division with a cheap but reliable gun.

Now why have eight 9mm pistols when all you need is one?

Sounds to me like you should be able to take care of the price tag issue that comes by selling most of them.

Are you talking about the Tristar T120 as the "clone clone"? Read some good things about it.

That's my intent- to try some production matches with a reasonably cheap but capable gun. Was trying to get out to some local USPSA matches before winter set in, but it never materialized. Why have a pile of 9mm's? I dunno. Because I can. Different strokes and all that...

No, by 'clone clone,' I meant Jericho. Israeli copy of an Italian copy of a CZ. The Tristar would be a clone clone clone.