Alaskapopo Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 First on my list is weight. Working guns are meant to be carried often and for long periods of time between use. Competitive rifle and carbines can be any weight because we can retire them to racks after a heavy workout. Competition rifles still need to be light enough to allow you to be fast with them. You don't see many top shooters lugging around 15 pound AR's. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 In my experience the M14/M1A is much more reliable than the AR-10. The Marine Corps take on the AR was diametrically opposed to the Army's durring the Viet Nam conflict and many a Snuffy would say keep that AR I don't have time to wait for them to fall over. A 14.5" AR for hunting? You mean for small white tails and such, or are we talking Elk, Mule Deer, Bear, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I have to admit the AR10 is finally getting some real love on the development side. DPMS, JP and Larue have invested tremendous time and effort to improve reliability. The AR10 is also considerably more versatile than the M1A, with it's myriad of options. There is just something very right about the M1A. For an old school rifle it handles extremely well and is a joy to shoot. I guess with the recent changes to the AR10's, it would be a tough choice between the two for a working rifle. I really, really like my JP 308. It's got nearly 7000 rounds through it with only minor periodic maintenance and I can only remember a single FTE on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMedic Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) Work Rifle = Happy Switch and issued ammo. 3gun Rifle = Rifle I get to actually shoot without some armorer breathing down my back. Edited August 13, 2014 by DocMedic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaky Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 In my experience the M14/M1A is much more reliable than the AR-10. The Marine Corps take on the AR was diametrically opposed to the Army's durring the Viet Nam conflict and many a Snuffy would say keep that AR I don't have time to wait for them to fall over. A 14.5" AR for hunting? You mean for small white tails and such, or are we talking Elk, Mule Deer, Bear, etc. I should have been more specific... I use the 14.5" AR for cruising around the ranch in the golf cart thinning the ferral hog population and such. White tail and Nilgai rifle is chambered in 6.5 SAUM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landshark45 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Weight is a big part of the difference. We're not talking about a 15lb gun no one wants to carry. But the majority of game guns sport medium to heavy profiles in the barrel. Not always but enough to be a very large percentage. A working gun might have a. 625 profile for a lightweight carry all day application. The difference between a 9lb rifle with optics vs a 7lb rifle with optics makes a difference at the end of a long day or days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landshark45 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Weight is a big part of the difference. We're not talking about a 15lb gun no one wants to carry. But the majority of game guns sport medium to heavy profiles in the barrel. Not always but enough to be a very large percentage. A working gun might have a. 625 profile for a lightweight carry all day application. The difference between a 9lb rifle with optics vs a 7lb rifle with optics makes a difference at the end of a long day or days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landshark45 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Double oops. Also a working gun might mean different things to different people. Law enforcement may be thinking of hours of use compared to a 3 guner who might be thinking minutes of use. Or even a soldier deployed that carries a rifle every conscious moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccoker Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Competition rifle 18" competition rifle with 1-5, comp, JP LMOS and silent captured spring Defensive rifle 14.5" middy with T1 and a flash hider, fullweight NP3 BCG and VLTOR A5 buffer system Hunting rifle 16" 6.8, 1.5- scope, flash hider, fullweight NP3 BCG and VLTOR A5 buffer system All run Wilson Combat TTU single stage triggers, 3lb version for the Comp and hunting a 4 for the defensive rifle Muzzle devices are also mounts for my can (templar nemesis30) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbox Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) My comp gun will go 250 rounds without cleaning and then it will not hold the bolt back on the last round. It has a jp LMOS and adjustable gas. I tuned the gas for 250 rounds of fault free function without cleaning (250 = 2 matches, but I clean it every match )...most guys give it a half a turn more etc. but I actually tested it with a round count with my reloads. My SHTF gun will go MUCH longer without a cleaning its full gas. If the SHTF and I'm away from home at a match, at least I know when I have to call a time out and clean my weapon. Edited August 14, 2014 by Finbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Competition or working guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Why that is real easy...it,s a work gun.....it has a real dinky magazine I just hope the roof of that MRAP isn't too hot for those poor guys in that hot Missouri Sun while they play soldier, cause they sure don't act or look like policemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 In my experience the M14/M1A is much more reliable than the AR-10. The Marine Corps take on the AR was diametrically opposed to the Army's durring the Viet Nam conflict and many a Snuffy would say keep that AR I don't have time to wait for them to fall over. A 14.5" AR for hunting? You mean for small white tails and such, or are we talking Elk, Mule Deer, Bear, etc. I have killed a 180 pound black bear with a 14.5 inch AR using 75 grain TAP. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I saw a guy kill a water buffalo with an M-79, does that count? I have killed 1500 pound animals with a single round of 22LR ....in a squeeze chute....but I wouldn't really want that if they were charging me out in the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I saw a guy kill a water buffalo with an M-79, does that count? I have killed 1500 pound animals with a single round of 22LR ....in a squeeze chute....but I wouldn't really want that if they were charging me out in the open. When are you writing a book? It would have to be entertaining! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Is this all that we have to talk about? Shooting steers, and encouraging the harvest of big game with underpowered rounds that do not meet the legal minimum in many states? There are entire forums dedicated to these sorts of discussions. Can we get back to discussing barrel length or possibly who makes the lightest bolt carrier? Or my all time favorite, projectile weight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) Actually the M-79 fires a 40mm grenade and could hardly be considered an underpowered round, although it probably wouldn't be legal for hunting due to it being over 50 cal. and a grenade not a bullet. But it's projectile weight would make the 77 grain folks cry in envy!!! Edited August 15, 2014 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 It does have a serious drawback - single shot. My bet is that a charging water buffalo would have a good chance of playing stomp the donkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Not from where we were standing, the only stomping going on was smoldering pieces of water buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Was it a water buffalo, or cape buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langenator Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Things a working rifle/carbine is much more likely to have: - old fashioned fixed front irons/gas block. I've never had much of an issue with these getting in the way when using an optic, either an M68 CCO (Aimpoint), EOTech, or magnified optic. - rails all the way around the front end for mounting lights, PEQ-2A (or whatever the current generation IR night aiming device is), and VFG or gripod - if the pistol grip and/or buttstock have storage compartments, there's probably actually stuff in them. - forward assist will definitely be present - lower receiver marked "Property of U.S. Government" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I saw a guy kill a water buffalo with an M-79, does that count? I have killed 1500 pound animals with a single round of 22LR ....in a squeeze chute....but I wouldn't really want that if they were charging me out in the open. I get your point Kurt but modern .223 bullets are a lot better than the varmint type bullets of yesterday. We issue a barrier blind load (bonded bullet) which is basically a big game bullet in a .223 package. You can do a lot more with a .223 than you used to be able to. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 With out a doubt Pat, and that same technology is being incorporated in bigger bullets as well.....but in the end it is still a small bullet at fairly low velocity when loaded with heavy bullets. As we used to say at GunSite, it is a very weak rifle bullet but it is just dandy in a pistol fight. This whole thing reminds me of saying a 32-20 in a model 92 Winchester is a rifle bullet...when we know a 45-90 in an 86 IS a REAL rifle bullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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