revchuck Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world! Duane - Are you old enough to have seen that movie? Remember where the treasure was found? Under the sign of the big W! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Why would IDPA HQ force .45 GAP to shoot in a division with 9mm if it could be shot in a division with almost identical ballistics as in CDP? Which brings us back to TractorTed and wondering why IDPA put .45 GAP is in ESP and not CDP. I did answer that question, right? It wasn't a hallucination on my part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world! Duane - Are you old enough to have seen that movie? Remember where the treasure was found? Under the sign of the big W! Actually, I've never seen the movie. (Though now I need to - see what you've done?) I've just always loved the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Duane,Is it meditation or medication time again? Medication is for those who can't enjoy insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Duane, I think I understand. Custome Defense Pistol (CDP) is for the 45 ACP cartridge only? Shooting 165+ power factor? No 10mm...no 40S&W...no 45GAP.., even if those cartridges make 165pf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I did answer that question, right? It wasn't a hallucination on my part?---Duane Thomas Yes Duane you gave your opinion (opinion, unless you've been told as much by the decision makers) as to why IDPA HQ didn't include 45 GAP in CDP. Which would still leave the question, why did IDPA HQ protect the 1911? My post wasn't directed to you, but rather to Mark Perez. Part of my post was meant to question, from a competition view point, why the 45 GAP isn't included in CDP. My thought being that if IDPA HQ moved the .45 ACP Moon clip guns from SSR and banned their "mouse fart" loads by requiring at least a 165PF, why would IDPA HQ allow "mouse fart" loads for the 45 GAP in ESP? So while I accept your explanation that Mr. Wilson is protecting the 1911 platform, there is a certain incongruity involved with IDPA HQ taking two vastly different stands on very similar situations. By taking such divergent positions, IDPA HQ leaves the shooting public questioning the motivation for these conflicting stands. And that Duane, is why questions are still being asked. Duane, can you tell me why IDPA HQ is protecting the 1911. Respectfully, jdkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Duane,I think I understand. Custome Defense Pistol (CDP) is for the 45 ACP cartridge only? Shooting 165+ power factor? No 10mm...no 40S&W...no 45GAP.., even if those cartridges make 165pf? Yes, CDP is for .45ACP cartridges only, loaded to a PF floor of 165. The .45GAP (as well as the .45ACP) can be used in SSP and ESP divisions. The round can then be downloaded to a lessor power factor as those divisions have a PF floor of 125. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TractorTed Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Yes, CDP is for .45ACP cartridges only, loaded to a PF floor of 165. The .45GAP (as well as the .45ACP) can be used in SSP and ESP divisions. The round can then be downloaded to a lessor power factor as those divisions have a PF floor of 125. Ok, so why not SSR, ESR, SSP, ESP, and last but not least ACP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Yes, CDP is for .45ACP cartridges only, loaded to a PF floor of 165. The .45GAP (as well as the .45ACP) can be used in SSP and ESP divisions. The round can then be downloaded to a lessor power factor as those divisions have a PF floor of 125. Ok, so why not SSR, ESR, SSP, ESP, and last but not least ACP? Not sure as to the meaning of your question. Please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TractorTed Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 If no other cartridge is allowed in CDP, why not just call it ACP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 Duane, can you tell me why IDPA HQ is protecting the 1911. I've been giving this some thought lately, and I'm just about convinced that the reason CDP is .45 ACP only is that the singlestack 1911 .45 ACP is the gun that the entire sport of combat pistol shooting was built on. It's THE American combat pistol, historically important, beloved of thousands of serious shooters. But over the years in USPSA/IPSC it was pushed aside, by course design and such. The intent of CDP is to provide a safe home where those who love the 1911 .45 ACP can compete with that gun design, and that cartridge, against people armed with the same technology. I can't really think of anything to add to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 ... The intent of CDP is to provide a safe home where those who love the 1911 .45 ACP can compete with that gun design, and that cartridge, against people armed with the same technology. ---Duane Thomas I understand the Mr. Wilson has a strong affinity for JMB, the 1911 and the 45 ACP. But I don't think that my understanding of Mr. Wilson, or your explanation, are the complete reasons for CDP to stand alone like no other division in IDPA. Perhaps I'm too cynical, or perhaps I'm too pragmatic, but I think it goes deeper then that. And I don't think you can give me those answers, even if you know. Respectfully, jdkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Jdkelly How do you know "Mr. Wilson has a strong affinity for JMB, the 1911 and the 45 ACP" - have you asked him ? Called him up and spoken with him? CDP is 45acp . PERIOD. The only person that's going to give you the answer is BW - and I doubt you would satisfied with it either. until that day Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Jdkelly How do you know "Mr. Wilson has a strong affinity for JMB, the 1911 and the 45 ACP" - have you asked him ? Called him up and spoken with him? No, actually it was Mrs. Wilson. Respectfully, jdkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Let's Just shoot....FYI Dave Sevigny spanked the SSP field with a G37 (.45 GAP) at the 2004 AL State match using 185gr Gold Dots (194pf). It will always come down to be more about the shooter than what caliber or platform they are shooting. Jesus, that's two things in ONE THREAD I agree with Mayo on, isn't that a sign of the apocalypse? On the other hand.....I have to admit I remain confused by the lack of logic in IDPA. If I understand correctly, the ONLY "real world self defense cartridge" in the world today that can make (165) major is .45 ACP? hmmmm. OK, I'm fine with JMB's 1911 in .45 acp having a place to play, I own them, carry them and I love them. But we do need somewhere for the .40's to compete too, and please think before your knee jerks and you scream "ESP!!!" at me again. Come on, the #1 cartridge for LEO and CCW in the country and you have to hand load wimp loads to shoot the "real practi-tacti-training" sport? weak dude, weak. Either someone should come out with cheap factory 135pf .40, 10mm and GAP loads or we should have a place to play with "real world full charge" ammo, in both SA and DA varieties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 On the other hand.....I have to admit I remain confused by the lack of logic in IDPA. If I understand correctly, the ONLY "real world self defense cartridge" in the world today that can make (165) major is .45 ACP? hmmmm. There are plenty of RW cartridges that go BEYOND major ..and they are all permitted in IDPA. OK, I'm fine with JMB's 1911 in .45 acp having a place to play, I own them, carry them and I love them. But we do need somewhere for the .40's to compete too, and please think before your knee jerks and you scream "ESP!!!" at me again. Forget about SSP? Come on, the #1 cartridge for LEO and CCW in the country and you have to hand load wimp loads to shoot the "real practi-tacti-training" sport? says who ?? I've shot many matches with commercial ammo in 40sw as have others - we even had a guy shooting factory 357sig at a recent regional - so where does it say in the rules we need to download?? hmmmm Either someone should come out with cheap factory 135pf .40, 10mm and GAP loads or we should have a place to play with "real world full charge" ammo, in both SA and DA varieties. We already have a place for full power ammunition - SSP/ESP/CDP/etc/etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I've been giving this some thought lately, and I'm just about convinced that the reason CDP is .45 ACP only is that the singlestack 1911 .45 ACP is the gun that the entire sport of combat pistol shooting was built on. It's THE American combat pistol, historically important, beloved of thousands of serious shooters. But over the years in USPSA/IPSC it was pushed aside, by course design and such. The intent of CDP is to provide a safe home where those who love the 1911 .45 ACP can compete with that gun design, and that cartridge, against people armed with the same technology. And most CDP shooters seem just fine with that. Love it, actually. USPSA is working on the home for the 1911 45acp as well. When you consider that God carries a 1911 (John Browning does her trigger jobs), it seems appropriate to have a division or category for it. Gotta get ready for the 100th anniversary special all the rags will be printing in a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 On the other hand.....I have to admit I remain confused by the lack of logic in IDPA.---DirtyPool40 You are absolutely correct Dirtypool40, from a competition point of view, there seems to be little reason for several of the rule changes. And that I think, is part of the problem that we've seen the last couple of weeks. Respectfully, jdkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 And I don't think you can give me those answers, even if you know. Now that's just plain insulting. I think I do know. Of course, that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock2234 Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 We already have a place for full power ammunition - SSP/ESP/CDP/etc/etc.. And I thought the long awaited rule revision would take care of it by raising the power factors of all divisions to near factory loads. The equipment race had become a reload contest. I was shooting a G-22 .40 in SSP and getting killed by 9mm. Now I shoot a G-34. End of problem. But I don't claim to carry it. All that was needed was some minor clarifications and some real life power factors. Now, we have a whole new collection of gray areas and I have found several that will be exploited, to great advantage, that did not exist under the LGB. What are they? You have to be kidding. They were prohibited in the LGB but not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Duane, No insult intended, I was alluding to the damage you could cause yourself professionally as a gun industry writer, should your posted personal opinions conflict with that of the industry. Respectfully, jdkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 It's happened before. And I still haven't learned my lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Good, it seems we have a similar trait. Respectfully, jdkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 2234, you're right on the money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Good, it seems we have a similar trait. Togetherness is SO important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now