help with my set up

[JimWheeler]

Hello,

I recently purchased a 625JM along with Jerry's spring kit. I have also added the Cylinder & Slide extended firing pin.

I have a Dillon 650 press that I use for my .45 loads. Primmers are Federal.

I have been reading that people are setting or have thier trigger pull under 7lbs. I have mine set at 7.5 and have been getting some very light strikes. I use a Lyman digital scale to measure the pull.

What the hell am I doing wrong.... besides getting into shooting a 6 shot revolver when all the other kids have 8 shots.

I try to seat the primmers the same everytime and did see that cool device Alecmc created to stop the preassure on his press, but I have a strong mount on mine so don't think that would work.

Right now I am setting it at 8.5 and it seems to work more consistently but knowing the lighter pull is better so reducing would be better

Please help a NOOB out...... Any and all suggestions are welcome

Edited August 1, 2014 by JimWheeler

[MWP]

Have you cleaned up the gun at all? Rough surfaces on the contact edges inside the gun cause friction, stealing spring tension that would otherwise be used to set off the primers. Jerry Miculek has a few good videos on cleaning up the inside of a revolver.

I'm not sure what the priming system on a 650 is like, but the majority of revolver shooters hand seat federals, so they are nice and tight, and appear deep in the pocket.

Someone else may have a better opinion on that aftermarket firing pin as well, I have only ever used apex's.

[Toolguy]

You are on the right track, but sometimes it takes some action tuning to get a reliable lighter pull. Each gun is an individual. In yours, you may need a lighter rebound spring, the hammer may be contacting the rebound slide just before it hits the firing pin, the hammer may be dragging on something, there may be cylinder endshake, the timing may be off a little, etc. There can be any number of issues. It's pretty hard to know without having the gun on the bench and handling it. See if you can find a good revo guy in your area and have him take a peek at it. These items are easy to fix if you know what to do.

[mmauk]

As for as gun I'm no mike carmoney but I polished trigger, hammer, rebound spring,etc.I followed jerry video

As for ammo use federal primers I hand primer my brass to .008" at .010" seems to work for me.

I cut my hammer to forgot that

my trigger runs around 6.5#

Hope this helps

[JimWheeler]

Thanks everyone,

So I dont think the issue is with my primer depth. I just reloaded a bunch and found on the average they are seated @ .003 Unless I am totally of base and they should be deeper

so I am on to the next step and have ordered JM's trigger video. Once that is off my checklist, I would think the next logical thing is to try different rebound slide springs.

[MWP]

Most of the hand seated primers run around .010 below flush. I've gotten to the point where I can feel if I seat a primer to deep by hand, and I'll toss it in the practice pile, but they still go off. Upon inspection, these are in the .017-.020 range.

JM does a good job in his video giving you a tour around the inside of the gun, and explaining each part.

Rebound springs are a good place to gain a little weight reduction, and maybe Carmoney will chime in here, but I believe you want to set your mainspring first, to set off the primers, then start playing with the rebound springs. Too light of a spring will cause a sloppy return. The 11lb Wolff seems to be a popular choice to match JMs mainspring, and some go even lighter by grinding on the spring.

And don't forget to figure out a way to lock down your screw holding the mainspring tension. They absolutely move in a 625, even with loctite.

[Carmoney]

Rebound springs are a good place to gain a little weight reduction, and maybe Carmoney will chime in here, but I believe you want to set your mainspring first, to set off the primers, then start playing with the rebound springs. Too light of a spring will cause a sloppy return. The 11lb Wolff seems to be a popular choice to match JMs mainspring, and some go even lighter by grinding on the spring.

And don't forget to figure out a way to lock down your screw holding the mainspring tension. They absolutely move in a 625, even with loctite.

Yeah, I think that is exactly the right approach. It's more of an art than a science (i.e. harder to explain than to do), but the goal is to have the lightest mainspring tension that will give 100% ignition (and I don't mean 99%!) with good match ammo, and then bring down the tension on the rebound spring so that balances nicely with the mainspring tension. You can lighten it up a lot from factory spec and still have nice snappy rebound, but only if the mainspring tension is similarly reduced. Using Federal primers and good primer seating "hygiene," you should be looking at somewhere around 6 or 6.5 pounds (although frankly, it's dang difficult to accurately and consistently measure the DA pull on a revo).

I completely agree with loctiting down the strain screw. Adjust the mainspring tension so that it is correct with the strain screw fully tightened down (I usually shorten the strain screw somewhat, and put additional arch in the mainspring), then put a drop of blue loctite on the threads and tighten that baby down hard!

The other key to reliable functioning? Once you get it right, don't dick with it. There is no need to take the gun apart unless you're having a problem. My 627 has been in use a lot lately, and I can't remember the last time I had it apart.

(Old hands on BE have heard me say all these things before!)

[Carmoney]

Thanks everyone,

So I dont think the issue is with my primer depth. I just reloaded a bunch and found on the average they are seated @ .003 Unless I am totally of base and they should be deeper

Jim, primer pocket depth varies (particularly if you're using mixed brass), so I have never bought into the idea that measuring seating depth means anything. What you want is to fully seat the primer, so that there is absolutely no further movement of the primer when the firing pin (or hammer nose) strikes it.

Note that factory ammo usually does not have fully seated primers.

You want the primers to be seated nicely below flush, enough that they are fully seated and starting to flatten out a little bit. Don't crush them in so hard that you can see the anvil poking up through the primer cup!

[seanc]

Most of the hand seated primers run around .010 below flush. I've gotten to the point where I can feel if I seat a primer to deep by hand, and I'll toss it in the practice pile, but they still go off. Upon inspection, these are in the .017-.020 range.

20? damn bro, you crushin? hah!

This is among many is one of the glorious bits of a 1050, run the shell plate tight, set the primer depth, and they all come out the same. .010 for me.

[MWP]

I hand prime instead of using a grip trainer, two birds with one stone.

[reuel_f_emery]

I use Federal Large Pistol primers, Dillon SDB. Seat them very very firm, release, turn the primer, and

seat them again very firmly...this seems to work really well. Then check that you can see that the primer

is deeper than the rim...

The lead bullets which I normally use...seem to be less sensitive to problems than when using plated bullets...

(makes no sense but this is what happens)...

All this in a 625-5 with the APEX trigger and action job.

[Shadowrider]

You didn't mention whether or not you have bobbed the hammer. I'll yield to those here that are more experienced, but I'm thinking that to get down to 6.5lbs AND have reliable primer ignition you have to remove some weight from that hammer. I have mine around 6.5'ish lbs but I remove just short of 50% of the hammer weight too, which is a really radical mod and about all I care to go. And when you get down this far it's a "Federal only" primer proposition. I only hand seat my primers for big matches and it's mostly just for insurance, my 650 will seat them just fine as long as I do my part, but I do have to be diligent or it will tell me about it real quick. I also just do what's in the JM Trigger Job video with the addition of the hammer lightning and I polish the inside of the hole in the rebound slide that the rebound spring runs in.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Shadowrider

[Carmoney]

This is among many is one of the glorious bits of a 1050, run the shell plate tight, set the primer depth, and they all come out the same. .010 for me.

Which is fine, as long as you're using brass with consistent primer pocket depth. Keep in mind it's not how far below flush that matters--what matters is getting the primer fully bottomed out.

[seanc]

This is among many is one of the glorious bits of a 1050, run the shell plate tight, set the primer depth, and they all come out the same. .010 for me.

Which is fine, as long as you're using brass with consistent primer pocket depth. Keep in mind it's not how far below flush that matters--what matters is getting the primer fully bottomed out.

all starline bought in 3 orders for me so no issues though i knkw some have not had the same luck.

still, when you get down to it tuned revolvers really are a pita arent they?

[Toolguy]

Not nearly the PITA that tuned autos are!

[PatJones]

... I'm thinking that to get down to 6.5lbs AND have reliable primer ignition you have to remove some weight from that hammer.

My 625 is at 6.25 lbs with a full hammer. Mine has the fixed hammer nose.

The real reason for bobbing the hammer is that when we get the double action trigger pull this light, the single action is unsafe.

[MWP]

I have no idea why the gun would be unsafe shooting single action with a light trigger or not.

The reason I have my hammers bobbed is because I get so high on the frame I catch an uncut hammer. I'm still trying to figure out what to do on the 617 about this problem.

The hammer being bobbed, it's lighter, which allows the hammer to move faster to ignite the primer, thus allowing spring tension to be removed, and the trigger weight goes down.

There was a shooter on the super squad this year at nationals with a full hammer still in his gun, and the trigger was 5.5lbs. It's doable, but the trigger can go even lighter with a lighter hammer.

[Fabzz613]

I have no idea why the gun would be unsafe shooting single action with a light trigger or not.

The reason I have my hammers bobbed is because I get so high on the frame I catch an uncut hammer. I'm still trying to figure out what to do on the 617 about this problem.

The hammer being bobbed, it's lighter, which allows the hammer to move faster to ignite the primer, thus allowing spring tension to be removed, and the trigger weight goes down.

There was a shooter on the super squad this year at nationals with a full hammer still in his gun, and the trigger was 5.5lbs. It's doable, but the trigger can go even lighter with a lighter hammer.

Apex tactical mass driver hammer for the 617

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid3.html

Edited August 4, 2014 by Fabzz613

[MWP]

I know they do, and they already made a fortune off me being a sucker for their work, it's just a matter of time...

[Luv2rideWV]

Carmoney and the Toolguy are awesome. Better advice cannot be had.

My 625's trigger is/was somewhere around 6.25 pounds. At that time, it still had the hammer spur. I used Jerry's video, lighter rebound spring, and the factory spring that was bent to add some additional arch. I suggest using Jerry's video and adhering to the advice mentioned above by these two guys. My primers are seated by hand; also, you have to use Federal. The only thing I'm not sure someone has mentioned is that you'll want to avoid going too light with the rebound spring; lighten the pull with the main spring and then try lighter rebound springs; if you go too light on the rebound spring in relation to everything else, it feels funky, and you might not get the trigger return you want; you will not get it perfect on the first or second tries - tinker with it! Have fun and good luck!

[JimWheeler]

Thanks everyone for your replies, all good things to consider.

So today I hope to receive the "Jerry" video in the mail. Will watch several times then will proceed.

Seeing that I have already purchased the spring kit from Jerry's site and its installed, I may start experimenting with the different rebound springs to get the personal feel and to ensure the primers ignite.

I did notice that I am seeing the hammer hitting the left side underneath the firing pin, this might be causing a little bit of the light strike issue when I have the pull set at 7-7.5 lbs. I may need to shim the hammer a bit. Also the hammed where it hits the firing pin does not look like it hits it flush. Not sure if this is a hugh issue or not.