At what point is it sweeping….

[Poppa Bear]

While I will agree that the mags should have been placed on the table first to avoid this discussion...

Sweeping is when you have control of the gun (gun in your hands). IF the gun was already on the table AND the hands are off the gun, no sweeping...for any of the mags...

I think you need to read the rule again. It states "allowing the muzzle....", there is no verbiage that I see that states "when you have control".

It's under "Unsafe Gun Handling". If the gun is not in your hand, you cannot be handling it.

Still not seeing anything. You have a rule number you'd like to share that confirms what you're saying?

From page 60 of the rulebook:

Sweeping...................... Pointing the muzzle of a firearm at any part of any person’s body.

And from page 47 of the rulebook:

10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’s body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping).

Doesn't say you have to be holding it, just that the muzzle points at part of the competitor's body during a course of fire.

When the gun is on the table, it is no longer holstered. Holstered is the only exception to the sweeping DQ. You have control over the gun and you have control over where you place your body parts. Intentional acts that place your body parts in front a muzzle of a gun placed for a table start will be a DQ under 10.5.5.because you do have control over your own body.

[Steve RA]

I would not think that the "course of fire" had begun while preparing for the stage.

[CZinSC]

I would not think that the "course of fire" had begun while preparing for the stage.

Course of fire starts at Make Ready. Only way the gun is on the table for you to sweep yourself is if Make Ready had been given.

Otherwise it would be a DQ for a whole other reason/rule.

[ktm300]

So........... Back to the original question.

<<So how far past the yellow line on the picture and at what angle do you call it sweeping? You can argue that when placing #3 the muzzle wasn’t pointing at your hand, or can you?>>

The way I rule on pointing is a line drawn straight from the breach out the barrel would intersect your body part. I see people get close a lot, mostly opening ports or doors.

As to the guy that says you are not handling the gun I would disagree. In 10.5... there are several instances where the word handling is added to the description. If handling was assumed we would not need the extra verbiage.

10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’s body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping).

Put the mag down on the table with the gun pointed at your hand and you are a DQ. You were in control of the firearm as you were given make ready (start of the COF) and put it on the table. You allowed the gun to point at your hand when you put the magazine down. You get to go home and think about it.

The example where the table blows over is red herring. I know how I would call that, and it would not be a DQ but the reason would not be that you were not handling the gun. Same reason if you set your gun on the table and the table collapses. You did not drop your gun, you were not in control of that situation. You are in control of putting your hand in front of a gun after make ready.

[CZinSC]

So........... Back to the original question.

<<So how far past the yellow line on the picture and at what angle do you call it sweeping? You can argue that when placing #3 the muzzle wasn’t pointing at your hand, or can you?>>

The way I rule on pointing is a line drawn straight from the breach out the barrel would intersect your body part. I see people get close a lot, mostly opening ports or doors.

As to the guy that says you are not handling the gun I would disagree. In 10.5... there are several instances where the word handling is added to the description. If handling was assumed we would not need the extra verbiage.

10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’s body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping).

Put the mag down on the table with the gun pointed at your hand and you are a DQ. You were in control of the firearm as you were given make ready (start of the COF) and put it on the table. You allowed the gun to point at your hand when you put the magazine down. You get to go home and think about it.

The example where the table blows over is red herring. I know how I would call that, and it would not be a DQ but the reason would not be that you were not handling the gun. Same reason if you set your gun on the table and the table collapses. You did not drop your gun, you were not in control of that situation. You are in control of putting your hand in front of a gun after make ready.

It always scares me when you and I agree Matt.

But I see your point in the sweeping explanation about the straight line. I don't see anything about "a straight line" in the rulebook, but conversely, I don't see where I could DQ someone for putting the mags at 2,3,5,6 and point to a rule to back it up either.

as for the table, yes, agree with you 100%. That is an REF, or just bad luck, whatever. But it certainly not the competitors fault.

[frag316]

Yeah, I'm with KTM on this one. There's an imaginary "laser" coming out of the barrel. If that "laser" hits the competitor's body in any way when not holstering per the rulebook, it's a DQ.

[ktm300]

It always scares me when you and I agree Matt.

I think we agree more than we disagree and yes that scares me!