Practiscore on Nooks will not sync when connected to a secondary netwo

[markEmark]

I’m running version Practiscore 1.2.7 on Nooks NSTs rooted with Root-and-Score-It. Not sure how I ended up with such an old version. A friend at another match is running 1.2.17 and is having the same problem.

The problem…I first connected my six Nooks to a network in my house, an unsecured lyncsys router connected to the internet via cable (Network A). I was able to simulate entire matches, syncing at will after making all kinds of updates to several Nooks at one time. The “master” Nook was always able to build a list of available devices in 10-20 seconds.

I get to the range and connect to our brand x router there that is encrypted and not connect to the internet (Network . I am able to connect all six nooks to that network after being prompted for the password. Connection is established within 5-10 max. When I try to use the master or any of the nooks to build the sync list, it is taking minutes and minutes. So long that I think I figured out that if I wanted 10 – 20 MINUTES, they would connect. I didn’t have that much time so I packed up and came home.

At home, I reconnect the nooks to Network A, everything is working great again.

Match day…I figure I will just carry router from Network A to the range and use it there. I carry router from Network A to the range and retry everything standing within 20 feet of the router to make sure coverage is not a problem. Now Network A is acting like Network B!!! Taking many, many minutes to connect. So long that feature is not usable. I proceed to run the match using the nooks standalone until I can bring Network A back home to sync everything up to complete scoring. Back home connected to the internet, things worked great again.

A good friend at Sir Walter Raleigh has a very similar issues using version 1.2.17. His theory is that once a Nook is connected to one network, it never functions well if moved to another network. In my case the network was the same but Network A1 was connected to the internet and Network A2 was not.

Any ideas or questions? Any suggestions appreciated.

[wgnoyes]

No one yet? Well, it was late when you put this out here.

(1.2.7? I thought that might have been a typo - left out the 1 - until you said old version. I track the state of this stuff in a spreadsheet and it shows that 1.2.7 was a good build, but a lot of networking and sync work has gone into practiscore since then.)

Well, in the past, I've been able to demonstrate that at home, like you, and using a much more modern router, android nooks seems to find one another pretty quickly. When I change out at the range to a much older linksys wrt54g (that's pretty much THE generic linksys router from years back), then the lookup process in the sync tab could take MINUTES. A friend of mine who does networking for a living tells me a long complicated explanation that basically boils down to use more recent hardware for your choice of router.

At Area 6 this year, we tried to put the scoring devices on a secured network while having a separate open network for the masses. We had problems on the secured network with increased drop off of nooks from the network that seemed to resolve itself when we switched them all over to the open network.

For a local match, I'd say just get a modern router that you intend to use at the range and use it AS IS, without setting an access point password or encryption or other things like that. It really doesn't present a security issue as people cannot push data to the scoring nooks, you can only sync from them. I know that's not much to go on.

...and maybe REAL support will come along after awhile and give you a different answer. You can also email your question to support@practiscore.com and hopefully get a quicker response. I think the Steel Challenge match is next week, so they may be distracted right now.

(Oh, also there are known syncing issues between two nooks (or any other android device) when running 1.2.17. You might have stumbled across that. Try 1.2.18 and see if that doesn't help.)

Edited June 20, 2014 by wgnoyes

[Mark R]

As a quote from Practiscore Eugene...

"As for long sync, check the device ip addresses. It helps when all devices are within +/-50 IPs from each other. If not you're looking at extra 20 seconds for next 100 and extra 40 for last 56 IPs, starting from the current device IP."

In other words...your router may be giving out a wide IP Range...check the Nooks when on Network B and see if their IP address is within 50 or each other and the master.

[wgnoyes]

That's one reason I would think using a vanilla factory-reset out of the box modern router would work better. My experience is a router just starts at x ip addr and hands them out in x+1 succession. Can't think of any reason why it wouldn't. Is there?

[mosher]

We use a secured wrt54g router and go back and forth with the nooks on a few different networks and haven't had any sync issues.

[jester121]

I think Mark R is on the right track. I've seen some routers set up by people who unwisely assign a class A or B (16 million or 65,000 addresses) to their DHCP scope, thinking that more must be better. I think it was JC Wren who mentioned that he likes using address reservations to ensure his Nooks are sequentially numbered at the beginning of the range, which is a great idea to speed up the search, but not something most people are capable of configuring.

[markEmark]

Thanks for all the info...this gives me several things to try.

One thing still does not add up. My 6 nooks work good with my old style wrt54g lyncsys at home but not when I take that router to the range. I shall disconnect it from the web at home and see if that is the difference.

Two questons...

I stumbled through creating the bootable SD card with Practiscore on it initially.

1 - best place I can find v1.2.18

2 - any good notes on how to update my nooks with this newer version.

Thanks!

[markEmark]

ok, answered my own question #1

https://practiscore.com/

[jcwren]

Supposedly the later versions of PS are a little more intelligent, and start looking at their IP - 32, then work up. It shouldn't really matter where the IP address is, as long as NOOK #1 doesn't get x.y.z.32 and NOOK #2 gets x.y.z.240.

I prefer to configure our routers so that devices get the same address based on their MAC address. I put my iPad at 192.168.17.128, so if I enter the sync code manually, it's at 1180 (17 in hex is 11, 128 in hex is 80). This means I'm not getting a sync code like 1A7B, where I have to shift back and forth between the numbers and letters when entering it.

I put the NOOKs at fixed addresses because sometimes when they're being difficult about syncing by tapping from the device list, I can enter the sync code. I know that NOOK #1 is at 1101, NOOK #2 at 1102, etc.

[Vlad]

Is it possible that Nooks are trying to call home? One of the things I'm annoyed by with the Nooks when rooted or otherwise is that they will only set their own time from the internet. This is a problem if the time drifts on one of them, as practiscore won't let that one participate in the sync process if has gone more then 30min out of whack. This can NOT be fixed on the range if you don't have an outside connection.

I wonder if there is some silly logic in the nooks that tells them to try connecting to the internet if they have done it in the past on that network or some such, and fail to do so when on the range. In my case I have a battery opperated pocket router I use for syncing, and they nooks only make it on the internet via my home network.

[jcwren]

Is it possible that Nooks are trying to call home? One of the things I'm annoyed by with the Nooks when rooted or otherwise is that they will only set their own time from the internet. This is a problem if the time drifts on one of them, as practiscore won't let that one participate in the sync process if has gone more then 30min out of whack. This can NOT be fixed on the range if you don't have an outside connection.

I wonder if there is some silly logic in the nooks that tells them to try connecting to the internet if they have done it in the past on that network or some such, and fail to do so when on the range. In my case I have a battery opperated pocket router I use for syncing, and they nooks only make it on the internet via my home network.

They'll try to get the time from whatever network they're connected to. If you watch the networking screen when you connect to an AP, it probes to see if it can find "the internet". If it does, and it can find a time server, it will set the time. If not, it won't. The ability to set or not set the time has no bearing on the NOOKs finding each other in Practiscore. It's only when two Practiscore devices are syncing that the time is actually an issue.

[wgnoyes]

Thanks for all the info...this gives me several things to try.

One thing still does not add up. My 6 nooks work good with my old style wrt54g lyncsys at home but not when I take that router to the range. I shall disconnect it from the web at home and see if that is the difference.

Two questons...

I stumbled through creating the bootable SD card with Practiscore on it initially.

1 - best place I can find v1.2.18

2 - any good notes on how to update my nooks with this newer version.

Thanks!

1. Practiscore.com

2. Dropbox (already installed when using rootnscoreit) along with a $2 microsd card that you insert into the nook once and leave it there.

[wgnoyes]

...

Edited June 20, 2014 by wgnoyes

[jester121]

They'll try to get the time from whatever network they're connected to. If you watch the networking screen when you connect to an AP, it probes to see if it can find "the internet". If it does, and it can find a time server, it will set the time. If not, it won't. The ability to set or not set the time has no bearing on the NOOKs finding each other in Practiscore. It's only when two Practiscore devices are syncing that the time is actually an issue.

Without a way to dig in and change whatever hard coded NTP server is designated in the Nook's base programming, and short of running your own NTP source (and tricking the Nooks into using it), for all intents and purposes they need internet access for the clock thing.

We update Nooks with a simple USB cable, copy the .APK file over from a PC to each of the Nooks, and execute it. I find that easier than other cloud or SD card methods.

[wgnoyes]

...

We update Nooks with a simple USB cable, copy the .APK file over from a PC to each of the Nooks, and execute it. I find that easier than other cloud or SD card methods.

Different choices, whatever works for you, cool. I can update 12 nooks in around 5 minutes using the dropbox method.

[markEmark]

Supposedly the later versions of PS are a little more intelligent, and start looking at their IP - 32, then work up. It shouldn't really matter where the IP address is, as long as NOOK #1 doesn't get x.y.z.32 and NOOK #2 gets x.y.z.240.

I prefer to configure our routers so that devices get the same address based on their MAC address. I put my iPad at 192.168.17.128, so if I enter the sync code manually, it's at 1180 (17 in hex is 11, 128 in hex is 80). This means I'm not getting a sync code like 1A7B, where I have to shift back and forth between the numbers and letters when entering it.

I put the NOOKs at fixed addresses because sometimes when they're being difficult about syncing by tapping from the device list, I can enter the sync code. I know that NOOK #1 is at 1101, NOOK #2 at 1102, etc.

A light bulb went off some time after reading this. If I manually enter the sync code, everything works GREAT. I now also see why having the all numeric sync code with a scheme that is easy to remember will come in real handy. I'll try to implement next.

But for now, I an 1000% better off than before. Entering the sync code manually is way way better than waiting many minutes for it to work some of the time.

Thanks for everyone's help here!

[Mark R]

We just completed the NSSF Alabama Rimfire Challenge match using PS 1.2.17 with ~134 competitors. Sync issues were the only issues that came up, We have range wide wi-fi and during sync's I received messages like "No Route to Host", "Sync code invalid...", and another one I didn't write down. The "Invalid sync Code" really had me stumped...as I was entering the 4 digit sync code as it was displayed on the source Nook and both devices were "ON" the network.

Even with the minor sync issues, we had a successful match and Practiscore made my life easy. Scores were ready for awards way before awards were distributed.

Thanks Ken, Eugene, Russell, and all who made Practiscore happen.

[wgnoyes]

Running all android? There are sync issues in 1.2.17, I think.

[Mark R]

Running all android? There are sync issues in 1.2.17, I think.

yes...all Android here...tablets and Nooks.

[jcwren]

I did a little digging into the NOOK Android sources. To set the time, the NOOK is trying to hit an NTP server at 'time.barnesandnoble.com' or 'pool.ntp.org'.

I can think of several ways it could be tricked, but they're probably a little convoluted for (as Bill likes to say) 'non-propeller heads'. If you're running a smart enough stand-alone router at your range (like something running RouterOS or OpenWRT), you could add a DNS server that would hijack those two addresses and point them back to the router, where an NTP server would be running. However, most routers don't have real-time clocks, so if you set the router's clock then cycle the power, the clock is going to be incorrect.

If *all* the devices being used have the wrong time, there's not much of an issue. But if you're using a phone or tablet with cellular service, and the NTP server isn't set to the correct time, the phone/tablet and the NOOKs will be too far apart and won't sync (Practiscore doesn't permit the time to be more than 10 minutes apart between the syncer and syncee). Plus you don't really want to jack around the time on some devices, as it may cause any software with an expiration date to expire, along with security certificates.

Probably the easiest way to handle this to install an Android program that actually allows the time to be set manually. This is near impossible on a non-root device, because setting the time is considered a VERY important operation, and mere users can cause many problems by jacking around the time. For rooted devices, like the NOOKs, this is much less of a problem. I'll poke around and see what I can find, and update the Root'n-Score-It rooting system with a utility that would allow manual time setting.