Working to Understand Tanfoglios Better

[Moltke]

Well if you think about whats happening during recoil with the slide moving rearward then forward, the shooter should be focused visually on watching the front sight during recoil as it arcs from its original position to the point where it resets in its original position - then fire again. The goal after all is to shoot quick acceptable sight pictures.

So one of the best ways to do this is never lose track of the front sight during recoil in the first place. If you know where its going to recoil to, watch it as it moves, watch it reset and intuitively shoot upon recognizing your acceptable sight picture in the moment the sight settles in the rear notch - that results in pretty quick shooting.

Less felt recoil is a good thing and helps with this technique but it is the means not the ends. What I meant by "seeing" is how does all this happen, and what does it look like during static recoil on the same target, and transition recoil when going from target to target. I imagine with a heavy gun and smaller reciprocating mass in the slide that it looks pretty good, easy to track, and easy to shoot fast.

Does that make sense? Is this what you Tanfo shooters are finding to be the case?

[Nealio]

I'm confused at what you're asking. Are you asking if you can visually see the difference in sight picture acquisition betwen a Stock III and a Stock II or between a Tanfoglio and a Glock?

The Tanfoglios with their "1/2 slide", heavy steel frames, and low bore axis shoot very fast and very flat. I don't have issues tracking my sights or waiting for the slide to stop so I can get a clean sight picture.

When I shoot a heavier slided gun (STI, Glock, XD, etc) there is a lot more disruption of the sight picture from the motion of the slide.

Hope that helps.

[bayougump]

You sound like you want a Tanfoglio and all I can say is you essentially cannot go wrong with any models almost. The Stock II and III are absolutely wonderful guns and I can't imagine you being disappointed and if you are you should not have a single issue selling it as they are in high demand. I was hoping the FFL was gonna have my Stock III today but the postal service sucks so maybe tomorrow

[Moltke]

Not sold on Tanfo or CZ, but interested in learning about both.

They seem to be a measureable cut above the rest of Production's choices - Glock, Sig, Beretta, MP, XD

And even if its a higher level of accuracy I can't use, better is better, so why not?

Thanks for the responses and if anyone has follow up information then please contribute.

I have also emailed EAA to ask some questions which I'll post Q & A here

[Blake Keiser]

Generally, I think we make too big a deal about which gun, what trigger, best shooting jersey, etc. I love Tanfoglio guns and have three Limiteds.

Why? Because I bought a Match on impulse a few years ago (couldn't believe how cheap it was) found it accurate and reliable and so committed to the platform with spare parts, holsters, etc. Part of being a Tanfo guy is getting to listen to all the 2011 devotees wonder why anyone would shoot anything other than what is, in this country, the gold standard. Reminds me of a secretary I had in Ventura, CA who couldn't get her head around why our (national motorcycle aftermarket distribution) business slowed down in winter. She saw the world through California Eyes! Funny but also sad. Anyway, if you're a reasonably strong person, a heavy gun seems ok. Maybe slightly slower (theoretically) transiting targets, but more stable when you're on the trigger!

Glocks and the like are great for those who prefer them, too.

[Moltke]

Nice! I'm popular!

http://doodieproject.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/1745-future-production-champion-needs-a-new-gun/

Thanks for believing in me Twinkie, I like the sound of "future production champion"

[JWard79]

Talk with Ernesto or Russell at the next match. I'm sure between the two of them you can figure out the unspoken truth about the unicorn guns. At the very least you should be able to run two of the guns on your list to see if you prefer the whole package over your Glock. If you're dead set on the CZ/Tangfo option J&L Gunsmithing might be able to help out with the technical advantages/disadvantages. Just remember you'll be at least one position higher on the overall because of me, don't say I never did anything for you.

[Craig N]

Embrace the Nuthugging and get a Stock 2. If it's good enough for Ben, it's good enough for you.

[Moltke]

Ernest's feelings are there is advantage but it comes with a smaller reliability window with regard to ammo and its not worth the trouble.

Haven't talked with Russell but I will, I'm not set on anything, at this point just learning.

[bayougump]

Embrace the Nuthugging and get a Stock 2. If it's good enough for Ben, it's good enough for you.

You will be BALLER once you become one with the nuthuggery

Sent from my flux capacitor

[Nealio]

Ernest's feelings are there is advantage but it comes with a smaller reliability window with regard to ammo and its not worth the trouble.

What do you mean by this? Is this something the Glock guys told you?

[BeerBaron]

like kneelingatlas I have both CZ shadow (2 of them actually) and a tanfoglio stock II (both 9mm and 38 super).

My stock 2 is actually what's called a stock 2 limited and has the longer 4.75inch dustcover and barrel but that's really a minor difference.

Stopped reading after this. That is my dream production gun. Stock 2 Limited. The Aussie one.

yep there is some small advantages about our weird gun rules. we get CZ shadows with slightly longer barrel too (thought they look a bit funny), and we got the stock II limited. it's a cool thing and looks nice with the flush fitting barrel crown (slide, dustcover and barrel all flush).

[C-Money]

Nice! I'm popular!

http://doodieproject.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/1745-future-production-champion-needs-a-new-gun/

Thanks for believing in me Twinkie, I like the sound of "future production champion"

You're over-thinking a bit. If you want a heavier gun and a better trigger go with one of the steel guns. If you like cheap, light, and don't hate the trigger stay with your Block.

[seanc]

Stock IIs in 9mm are rare in the states right now, Stock IIIs in 9mm are rarer and the Xtreame line are the most elusive. CZ SP-01s are easy to get right now, and SP-01 Shadows are starting to come back so I wouldn't rule out CZ;

Where exactly are CZ's coming back? I keep looking for a shadow but they just aren't available and ones that pop on gunbroker are going for double retail.

I talked to one of the biggest retail shops in the country two days ago, this place moves ALOT of handguns every day. A tiny handful are popping out here and there but he said all steel frame CZ's are 12-13 months.

[Torogi]

like kneelingatlas I have both CZ shadow (2 of them actually) and a tanfoglio stock II (both 9mm and 38 super).

My stock 2 is actually what's called a stock 2 limited and has the longer 4.75inch dustcover and barrel but that's really a minor difference.

Stopped reading after this. That is my dream production gun. Stock 2 Limited. The Aussie one.

yep there is some small advantages about our weird gun rules. we get CZ shadows with slightly longer barrel too (thought they look a bit funny), and we got the stock II limited. it's a cool thing and looks nice with the flush fitting barrel crown (slide, dustcover and barrel all flush).

I think its just cost effective for CZ to do it that way. Some say its more accurate but i had both and its the same accuracy. Now.. the Stock 2 Limited... that, is a total different beast! Its basically a limited gun.. without the hole in the frames. And its on the production roster!

I havent seen one in US. If I do, i wish it would be mine. Ha!

[zsavage81]

The other stuff seems to be no better / worse than any other production gun

• If it points wrong, then I'll learn how to hold it right
• If I need more grippiness, then add more
• All the common Production gun's magazines drop free
• Adjustable sights can be put on any of them

However what do you mean by it "drops the slide on slide lock reloads"? You mean it does this automatically when you insert the magazine? Is it designed that way or is it just sensitive like many of the MP's that auto-forward (don't know if that's the correct term)?

1) I'm talking about natural point of aim. as in you sling your hands up and the gun is pointed where you want it. If you are having to drive the gun somewhere else that shit takes time. That it's not a learned skill or something i had to practice is very nice. I like that the stock 2 naturally points very well for me. That may or maynot be the case for you.

2) Show me something else that's this aggressive? Your options to add more are weak, you have skate tape or the onix stuff you epoxy on. Neither of which last and you have to deal with tape sliding around. You don't have to mess with any of that on a stock 2.

3) Since it sounds like you haven't been in the competitive shooting game long I can tell you from my short tenure I've seen plenty of glock mags not drop out of the gun during matches and require the shooter to actually grab them and pull the mag out (ask Matt Sirmons about his 2013 Nationals experence with this). I've also seen it from the hk guys. It's a real issue, even if it's not super common those few seconds can destroy a match. What I haven't seen is anyone have this problem with metal mags.

4) you are right, they just cost an extra $100-$125. I'm simply saying that's money you don't have to spend when you get one of these guns. The factory adjustable site works as well or better than any dawson or other aftermarket site i've ever put on a gun.

[zsavage81]

like kneelingatlas I have both CZ shadow (2 of them actually) and a tanfoglio stock II (both 9mm and 38 super).

My stock 2 is actually what's called a stock 2 limited and has the longer 4.75inch dustcover and barrel but that's really a minor difference.

Stopped reading after this. That is my dream production gun. Stock 2 Limited. The Aussie one.

yep there is some small advantages about our weird gun rules. we get CZ shadows with slightly longer barrel too (thought they look a bit funny), and we got the stock II limited. it's a cool thing and looks nice with the flush fitting barrel crown (slide, dustcover and barrel all flush).

I think its just cost effective for CZ to do it that way. Some say its more accurate but i had both and its the same accuracy. Now.. the Stock 2 Limited... that, is a total different beast! Its basically a limited gun.. without the hole in the frames. And its on the production roster!

I havent seen one in US. If I do, i wish it would be mine. Ha!

The limited is not on the production list, its a SA only gun. I believe you are thinking about the limited pro which is on the list but an entirely different gun.

[Torogi]

like kneelingatlas I have both CZ shadow (2 of them actually) and a tanfoglio stock II (both 9mm and 38 super).

My stock 2 is actually what's called a stock 2 limited and has the longer 4.75inch dustcover and barrel but that's really a minor difference.

Stopped reading after this. That is my dream production gun. Stock 2 Limited. The Aussie one.

yep there is some small advantages about our weird gun rules. we get CZ shadows with slightly longer barrel too (thought they look a bit funny), and we got the stock II limited. it's a cool thing and looks nice with the flush fitting barrel crown (slide, dustcover and barrel all flush).

I think its just cost effective for CZ to do it that way. Some say its more accurate but i had both and its the same accuracy. Now.. the Stock 2 Limited... that, is a total different beast! Its basically a limited gun.. without the hole in the frames. And its on the production roster!

I havent seen one in US. If I do, i wish it would be mine. Ha!

The limited is not on the production list, its a SA only gun. I believe you are thinking about the limited pro which is on the list but an entirely different gun.

BeerBaron and I were talking about Stock 2 Limited.

For reference, go back to original post and look at the list of guns.. its #3. Stock 2 L. Look at the length. Its longer right? Now kid, that is what they call Stock 2 limited. Like BBaron mentioned, Aus has weird gun laws, so this model was made.

[zsavage81]

like kneelingatlas I have both CZ shadow (2 of them actually) and a tanfoglio stock II (both 9mm and 38 super).

My stock 2 is actually what's called a stock 2 limited and has the longer 4.75inch dustcover and barrel but that's really a minor difference.

Stopped reading after this. That is my dream production gun. Stock 2 Limited. The Aussie one.

yep there is some small advantages about our weird gun rules. we get CZ shadows with slightly longer barrel too (thought they look a bit funny), and we got the stock II limited. it's a cool thing and looks nice with the flush fitting barrel crown (slide, dustcover and barrel all flush).

I think its just cost effective for CZ to do it that way. Some say its more accurate but i had both and its the same accuracy. Now.. the Stock 2 Limited... that, is a total different beast! Its basically a limited gun.. without the hole in the frames. And its on the production roster!

I havent seen one in US. If I do, i wish it would be mine. Ha!

The limited is not on the production list, its a SA only gun. I believe you are thinking about the limited pro which is on the list but an entirely different gun.

BeerBaron and I were talking about Stock 2 Limited.

For reference, go back to original post and look at the list of guns.. its #3. Stock 2 L. Look at the length. Its longer right? Now kid, that is what they call Stock 2 limited. Like BBaron mentioned, Aus has weird gun laws, so this model was made.

Never seen one of those, or even heard of one of those being in the US? I thought we were talking about guns he had at least a tiny prayer of actually getting, my bad.

[kneelingatlas]

Stock IIs in 9mm are rare in the states right now, Stock IIIs in 9mm are rarer and the Xtreame line are the most elusive. CZ SP-01s are easy to get right now, and SP-01 Shadows are starting to come back so I wouldn't rule out CZ;

Where exactly are CZ's coming back? I keep looking for a shadow but they just aren't available and ones that pop on gunbroker are going for double retail.

I talked to one of the biggest retail shops in the country two days ago, this place moves ALOT of handguns every day. A tiny handful are popping out here and there but he said all steel frame CZ's are 12-13 months.

Check Oak Hill Guns and Kentucky Gun Company from time to time, they get them in and have great prices.

[BeerBaron]

like kneelingatlas I have both CZ shadow (2 of them actually) and a tanfoglio stock II (both 9mm and 38 super).

My stock 2 is actually what's called a stock 2 limited and has the longer 4.75inch dustcover and barrel but that's really a minor difference.

Stopped reading after this. That is my dream production gun. Stock 2 Limited. The Aussie one.

yep there is some small advantages about our weird gun rules. we get CZ shadows with slightly longer barrel too (thought they look a bit funny), and we got the stock II limited. it's a cool thing and looks nice with the flush fitting barrel crown (slide, dustcover and barrel all flush).

I think its just cost effective for CZ to do it that way. Some say its more accurate but i had both and its the same accuracy. Now.. the Stock 2 Limited... that, is a total different beast! Its basically a limited gun.. without the hole in the frames. And its on the production roster!

I havent seen one in US. If I do, i wish it would be mine. Ha!

The limited is not on the production list, its a SA only gun. I believe you are thinking about the limited pro which is on the list but an entirely different gun.

BeerBaron and I were talking about Stock 2 Limited.

For reference, go back to original post and look at the list of guns.. its #3. Stock 2 L. Look at the length. Its longer right? Now kid, that is what they call Stock 2 limited. Like BBaron mentioned, Aus has weird gun laws, so this model was made.

Never seen one of those, or even heard of one of those being in the US? I thought we were talking about guns he had at least a tiny prayer of actually getting, my bad.

lol, if we're talking about guns he can actually get we'd have to exclude all the 'cool' tanfogs! just kidding. Torogi and I just got a bit sidetracked is all. no harm intended.

what he said is correct though. there is a mythical beast called the stock II limited. basically a limited custom but without holes and with DA/SA trigger. sold in australia only (as far as I know) and on the production div list. I have one.

anyway, enough thread jack. we'll stay on topic. well here's a pic or two.

Edited June 13, 2014 by BeerBaron

[Torogi]

That is an absolute beauty!! I watched Paul Hagiantoniou (sp?) rock one on his recent match and its a blast! Its my first time to see an actual pic=)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[zsavage81]

like kneelingatlas I have both CZ shadow (2 of them actually) and a tanfoglio stock II (both 9mm and 38 super).

My stock 2 is actually what's called a stock 2 limited and has the longer 4.75inch dustcover and barrel but that's really a minor difference.

Stopped reading after this. That is my dream production gun. Stock 2 Limited. The Aussie one.

yep there is some small advantages about our weird gun rules. we get CZ shadows with slightly longer barrel too (thought they look a bit funny), and we got the stock II limited. it's a cool thing and looks nice with the flush fitting barrel crown (slide, dustcover and barrel all flush).

I think its just cost effective for CZ to do it that way. Some say its more accurate but i had both and its the same accuracy. Now.. the Stock 2 Limited... that, is a total different beast! Its basically a limited gun.. without the hole in the frames. And its on the production roster!

I havent seen one in US. If I do, i wish it would be mine. Ha!

The limited is not on the production list, its a SA only gun. I believe you are thinking about the limited pro which is on the list but an entirely different gun.

BeerBaron and I were talking about Stock 2 Limited.

For reference, go back to original post and look at the list of guns.. its #3. Stock 2 L. Look at the length. Its longer right? Now kid, that is what they call Stock 2 limited. Like BBaron mentioned, Aus has weird gun laws, so this model was made.

Never seen one of those, or even heard of one of those being in the US? I thought we were talking about guns he had at least a tiny prayer of actually getting, my bad.

lol, if we're talking about guns he can actually get we'd have to exclude all the 'cool' tanfogs! just kidding. Torogi and I just got a bit sidetracked is all. no harm intended.

what he said is correct though. there is a mythical beast called the stock II limited. basically a limited custom but without holes and with DA/SA trigger. sold in australia only (as far as I know) and on the production div list. I have one.

anyway, enough thread jack. we'll stay on topic. well here's a pic or two.

t5.JPG

t3.JPG

t1.JPG

GREAT, now i have to go to Australia and import one of those into the US for myself.

[BeerBaron]

like kneelingatlas I have both CZ shadow (2 of them actually) and a tanfoglio stock II (both 9mm and 38 super).

My stock 2 is actually what's called a stock 2 limited and has the longer 4.75inch dustcover and barrel but that's really a minor difference.

Stopped reading after this. That is my dream production gun. Stock 2 Limited. The Aussie one.

yep there is some small advantages about our weird gun rules. we get CZ shadows with slightly longer barrel too (thought they look a bit funny), and we got the stock II limited. it's a cool thing and looks nice with the flush fitting barrel crown (slide, dustcover and barrel all flush).

I think its just cost effective for CZ to do it that way. Some say its more accurate but i had both and its the same accuracy. Now.. the Stock 2 Limited... that, is a total different beast! Its basically a limited gun.. without the hole in the frames. And its on the production roster!

I havent seen one in US. If I do, i wish it would be mine. Ha!

The limited is not on the production list, its a SA only gun. I believe you are thinking about the limited pro which is on the list but an entirely different gun.

BeerBaron and I were talking about Stock 2 Limited.

For reference, go back to original post and look at the list of guns.. its #3. Stock 2 L. Look at the length. Its longer right? Now kid, that is what they call Stock 2 limited. Like BBaron mentioned, Aus has weird gun laws, so this model was made.

Never seen one of those, or even heard of one of those being in the US? I thought we were talking about guns he had at least a tiny prayer of actually getting, my bad.

lol, if we're talking about guns he can actually get we'd have to exclude all the 'cool' tanfogs! just kidding. Torogi and I just got a bit sidetracked is all. no harm intended.

what he said is correct though. there is a mythical beast called the stock II limited. basically a limited custom but without holes and with DA/SA trigger. sold in australia only (as far as I know) and on the production div list. I have one.

anyway, enough thread jack. we'll stay on topic. well here's a pic or two.

t5.JPG

t3.JPG

t1.JPG

GREAT, now i have to go to Australia and import one of those into the US for myself.

lol, I will procure one for you and torogi. to offset the cost of this venture kindly bring a couple of akai customs with you. perhaps the odd STI or SVI too, but what I really want is the akai and they are pretty scarce here. Just be prepared for the sticker shock. the stock II limited goes for $1900 AUD (about $1850 USD) here! ya do get 4 mags though. for some reason people here expect any IPSC capable gun here to come with mags. They get sad when their STI comes with 1!

my stock II L is now rocking black extreme grips (seem to suit it better than the silver) and the mags are running ben stoegers prod legal basepads (nice pads btw and good price). I'll post some pics in the pics thread.

[BeerBaron]

That is an absolute beauty!! I watched Paul Hagiantoniou (sp?) rock one on his recent match and its a blast! Its my first time to see an actual pic=)

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Paul is a great shooter and does indeed rock his stock II L.

for those interested in the kind if IPSC we shoot in australia, here's a vid of paul shooting a level 3 state titles match (I guess comparable to an Area match in USPSA). We do seem to have a bit longer distance. It seems probably average distance in USPSA is maybe 7 yards or so, our average is probably 10-12 yards. Of course with IPSC rules we only use metric targets now (the turtles).

We don't really rate on a world scale simply because our best shooters are still what I would call amateur (as in they have a full time job doing something else and shoot on their own time with their own money). Our top shooters typically have some sponsorship, but it's like free gear, discounted gun etc. Not enough that they can focus on shooting full time. It's simply because the market here is smaller and no company makes enough here to justify that level of sponsorship on an aussie shooter. We do try though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf0E7ErvI-o

Edited June 16, 2014 by BeerBaron