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MGM spinner targets, calibration?


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Hmm I wonder if a powdered metal slug will spin it in one? No damage to the target nor any splash-back.

Remington Disintegrators will spin them in 2 shots, but not 1 at 10 yards.

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Which brings an interesting physics problem up, MD/RM's don't want us using buckshot/slugs, but birdshot out of a specialized wad, or 1 7/8oz loads at 1300-1600 fps is OK???? seems to me the harder than lead stuff and prairie storm stuff is likely to do MORE "damage" to the target than any low recoil 1oz buckshot load ever would, but hey what do I know.

The harder than lead stuff is usually banned for exactly that reason, isn't it?

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Wynn, folks have the target, if you just require the 2 hits why not just have 2 plates and no spinner?!?!?! If the spinner has to be used as a target, for whatever reason??? folks want competitors to "spin it" but then they don't want you to use buck or slugs or whatever. So if you're going to stipulate what ammo, then just stipulate a hit on each plate with a spin, then everyone has to wait, the required??? amount of time for the second plate to present itself for the spinner to rotate, instead of stop the rotation.

Which brings an interesting physics problem up, MD/RM's don't want us using buckshot/slugs, but birdshot out of a specialized wad, or 1 7/8oz loads at 1300-1600 fps is OK???? seems to me the harder than lead stuff and prairie storm stuff is likely to do MORE "damage" to the target than any low recoil 1oz buckshot load ever would, but hey what do I know.

Trapr

I used a single shot of 1-1/2 oz 7.5's of regular lead shot at 1500fps in pheasant loads without flight control wad or flight stopper shot at Rockcastle's Shotgun match. They required 7.5 shot or smaller with the intent to limit potential damage to the targets, and I'm not sure that damage was necessarily avoided with my ammo. I won that stage by an ok margin, and if my 10 second penalty for dusting a no shoot isn't present, I still would have won that stage with 3-4 shots on the spinner, but that one shot spin have me a nice advantage!

At Midwest 3-Gun two years ago, I shot the match with a SuperNova for my first major match as an RO. The spinner had killed me during monthly matches there, so I brought an extra full turkey choke and 3.5" turkey loads with the largest shot size allowed....#6's. After I spun it in one shot.....and it spun and spun and spun...several people checked out the hull and word spread fast. By the end of the regular match, the target had to be retired permanently, the top and bottom arms were bent backwards and didn't allow a square hit anymore......the bearing wasn't even a concern anymore.

In designing stages for this years MW3G...it was one target I refused to consider using. The other was the clay flipper on poppers since clays didn't flip up consistently and unbroken each time.

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I had no problem turning the spinner at the Ironman with 2 & 3/4 length 7.5 target load from a local manufacturer. Think they're close to 1300 fps?

But I completely flopped when it came to turning the spinner with pistol and rifle. :( Need more practice!

I've also used a force gauge to measure trigger pulls, but it's capable of way more than I use it for. I could definitely see some good use of it to calibrate these sorts of targets.

Edited by TVpresspass
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I have given this topic a lot of thought over the last week (as I was ROing @ the Ironman).

In discussions with some other shooters and match staff, we determined that the spinner targets do not need calibration in the traditional sense.

I love this target so much because it is the only target which really reacts to power factor and shot placement. A single hit from a .45 is going to move the target more than a hit from a 9mm. And a exact-center hit is going to do more than a peripheral hit.

If you want to "calibrate" this target, all you need is a level. Make sure the target is level and it will spin fairly for everyone.

A separate issue from calibration is target maintenance. at the beginning of the match make sure the bearings are lubed and the bolts are torqued down. We went through 300 shooters at the Ironman on several spinners and had no issues with spinning, or failure to do so, due to maintenance. they were periodically checked and they held up great.

The only time I can see someone being granted a re-shoot is if the plates weren't properly maintained. They make a distinct sound and a lot of the energy is lost when they are loose. Tighten up the bolts and you are good to go.

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Not just tightening them up, the locking nuts need to be replaced periodically. If you do that they stay tight much longer under rifle and slug use. Pistol and birdshot will rarely loosen them.

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Baiting me Sterling? Safe distances for the new style spinners (in my humble opinion your milage may vary) pistol and shot 5 yards, rifle 50 yards, and slug 40 yards. For longevity of target life as well as suitable challenge my minimum is 7 yards pistol, 10 yards shot, 80 yards rifle and 60 yards slug. My max distance for a match would be 15 yards for pistol, 20 for shot, 100 for rifle, and 75 for slug. With a bolt gun a spinner at 250 is a kick in the pants, but for a match with 1x shooters, 100 yards is the max distance I would put one. They don't contrast well unless painted black or until they are well shot, and the top plate goes away. I have found that the new spinners just don't send the splash back that the old ones did. The flat target face is also far more durable and with the new braced pivot mount they don't get as jacked up. But at the risk of becoming a broken record, the bolts need to be tight.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I would consider a calibrated MGM spinner as one that flips in 3 solid hits from 12ga 7.5 shot target/trap loads on an IC choke at 10 yards through a 24" smooth bore shotgun barrel.

I think where most shooters get the negative feelings for the target come from the lack of routine maintenance over the course of the day/match based on local climate and weather conditions. Just follow whatever care you would normally give to a metal object designed for the outdoors with moving parts. Dry, free of dirt and debris, lubricated. If the grease fittings fail to work properly, replace the fittings, if that fails tear the hinge apart clean and inspect all pieces for, chaffing, wear and tear, corossion, and that the lube holes are free and clear, repalce as required, relube and reassemble, try it again. Use grease based on your climate, dry and dusty vs wet and humid are going to have different cleaning and lube rates.

I don't mean to insult anyones intelligence or experience but sometimes you just need to spell it out to make sure everyone is on the same page.

I shoot in Parma ID as my local monthly match so we have spinners, and whirly gigs, and polish plate racks, and 400m long range targets, and all other sorts of devilish things to deal with, like that natural terrain stage we had in May with the pistol and rifle spinner. Anyways, we always have tools on hand, 3/4 wrench and socket setup and a can of grease. Then its up to us as the shooters to inspect all of the targets during our stage walkthrough. Go over and spin the thing, it's not going to be perfect, but it'll tell you when it's loose and when she needs some grease. Every spinner at this years Ironman at least one of us was out there with those wrenchs putting a bit of ass into those bolts making sure everything was tight, and not just on the spinners, on anything we could find that was loose that shouldn't have been. Saddly that last Glock team guy on stage 10 got robbed by a loose spinner and we could see it from behind the line. All we did as the next squad was tighten her up, and she spun like a champ. Hell I saw one guy shoot the top plate off entirely one match. I see getting mad at a properly cared for spinner for not spinning like getting mad at a knock over plate that you hit but doesnt' fall, it spins in place and has it's most narrow edge facing you because you only winged it, unless you willing to deal with the problem being between your brain and your trigger finger, then you head is likely in a location that makes it very difficult to hear advice.

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Travis actually changed the rules at Ironman this year because so many people were taking the spinners with 1 shot in the past. This year they said nothing bigger than 6s and over 1350fps. They didn't check any ammo that I saw, and I still saw people taking the spinners with 1 shot, but if you broke the spinner or knocked it down it was a stiff penalty(100 seconds I think). When I prepare for Ironman I load 147s for my 9mm and 77s for my 223 because I know there's a bunch of spinners and heavy poppers out there. I don't think I've ever seen anyone take more than 4 shots at a spinner with birdshot, most people use 3...I didn't think that many people had issues with their shottys and the spinners. The first year the spinners kicked my butt, so I bought one and shot at it. A lot. Now, its just part of the course of fire. Are they tough for new guys? Yes. I guess that's what I would consider part of the learning curve...

As far as calibration goes, your RO should know that the arms need tightened on a regular basis...most of the ROs at Ironman had breaker bars we used to tighten the arms every few shooters as well as getting greased. If you are getting ready to run and it looks dry say something...ask to check it. Don't wait until after you have a bad run. :mellow:

Powderman81

Edited by Powderman81
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  • 2 weeks later...

Baiting me Sterling? Safe distances for the new style spinners (in my humble opinion your milage may vary) pistol and shot 5 yards, rifle 50 yards, and slug 40 yards. For longevity of target life as well as suitable challenge my minimum is 7 yards pistol, 10 yards shot, 80 yards rifle and 60 yards slug. My max distance for a match would be 15 yards for pistol, 20 for shot, 100 for rifle, and 75 for slug. With a bolt gun a spinner at 250 is a kick in the pants, but for a match with 1x shooters, 100 yards is the max distance I would put one. They don't contrast well unless painted black or until they are well shot, and the top plate goes away. I have found that the new spinners just don't send the splash back that the old ones did. The flat target face is also far more durable and with the new braced pivot mount they don't get as jacked up. But at the risk of becoming a broken record, the bolts need to be tight.

Like our interest in cold beverages we also share similar ideas about placement distances as well. IMO - there is a distance of limitation where the spinner can be placed too far away from the engagement area for the majority of competitors.

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Travis actually changed the rules at Ironman this year because so many people were taking the spinners with 1 shot in the past. This year they said nothing bigger than 6s and over 1350fps. They didn't check any ammo that I saw, and I still saw people taking the spinners with 1 shot, but if you broke the spinner or knocked it down it was a stiff penalty(100 seconds I think). When I prepare for Ironman I load 147s for my 9mm and 77s for my 223 because I know there's a bunch of spinners and heavy poppers out there. I don't think I've ever seen anyone take more than 4 shots at a spinner with birdshot, most people use 3...I didn't think that many people had issues with their shottys and the spinners. The first year the spinners kicked my butt, so I bought one and shot at it. A lot. Now, its just part of the course of fire. Are they tough for new guys? Yes. I guess that's what I would consider part of the learning curve...

As far as calibration goes, your RO should know that the arms need tightened on a regular basis...most of the ROs at Ironman had breaker bars we used to tighten the arms every few shooters as well as getting greased. If you are getting ready to run and it looks dry say something...ask to check it. Don't wait until after you have a bad run. :mellow:

Powderman81

Personally I think the rule was arbitrary. It set the bar at a level that only a few types of 3" ammo were blacklisted including Prairie Storm. Other 3" #6's were available that fell below the threshold, ie., Hornady Turkey. If you want to take the 1 shot 1 spin hits out of the equation for spinners then simply say no 3".

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Travis actually changed the rules at Ironman this year because so many people were taking the spinners with 1 shot in the past. This year they said nothing bigger than 6s and over 1350fps. They didn't check any ammo that I saw, and I still saw people taking the spinners with 1 shot, but if you broke the spinner or knocked it down it was a stiff penalty(100 seconds I think). When I prepare for Ironman I load 147s for my 9mm and 77s for my 223 because I know there's a bunch of spinners and heavy poppers out there. I don't think I've ever seen anyone take more than 4 shots at a spinner with birdshot, most people use 3...I didn't think that many people had issues with their shottys and the spinners. The first year the spinners kicked my butt, so I bought one and shot at it. A lot. Now, its just part of the course of fire. Are they tough for new guys? Yes. I guess that's what I would consider part of the learning curve...

As far as calibration goes, your RO should know that the arms need tightened on a regular basis...most of the ROs at Ironman had breaker bars we used to tighten the arms every few shooters as well as getting greased. If you are getting ready to run and it looks dry say something...ask to check it. Don't wait until after you have a bad run. :mellow:

Powderman81

Personally I think the rule was arbitrary. It set the bar at a level that only a few types of 3" ammo were blacklisted including Prairie Storm. Other 3" #6's were available that fell below the threshold, ie., Hornady Turkey. If you want to take the 1 shot 1 spin hits out of the equation for spinners then simply say no 3".

There is 2-3/4" Prairie Storm and I spun the spinner at the Benelli Rockcastle shotgun match with one shot of 2-3/4" 7.5's and a light mod choke. All you do is make it slightly harder to find a qualifying ammo type......like when I had to open the safe to find 1500fps 7.5's since #6's weren't allowed on spinners at that match about 2 days before I left for Kentucky.

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2 3/4" 1.5 ounce #6 magnum turkey loads spin them in one, and that is not a "normal" birdshot load by any stretch. Personally, I am for letting the competitor shoot whatever lead shot they want. If you put them out further, you almost require heavier loads. Put them in close, some guys are going to skip the heavy stuff and shoot the sequence. I have shot our spinner with 3 1/2" magnum turkey loads...now that will spin those suckers!

We don't tell the HM guys they can't use 155s at 2700 for rifle targets...just sayin...I thought outlaw 3Gunners did not like more rules. :)

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2 3/4" 1.5 ounce #6 magnum turkey loads spin them in one, and that is not a "normal" birdshot load by any stretch. Personally, I am for letting the competitor shoot whatever lead shot they want. If you put them out further, you almost require heavier loads. Put them in close, some guys are going to skip the heavy stuff and shoot the sequence. I have shot our spinner with 3 1/2" magnum turkey loads...now that will spin those suckers!

We don't tell the HM guys they can't use 155s at 2700 for rifle targets...just sayin...I thought outlaw 3Gunners did not like more rules. :)

rules are icky!

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2 3/4" 1.5 ounce #6 magnum turkey loads spin them in one, and that is not a "normal" birdshot load by any stretch. Personally, I am for letting the competitor shoot whatever lead shot they want. If you put them out further, you almost require heavier loads. Put them in close, some guys are going to skip the heavy stuff and shoot the sequence. I have shot our spinner with 3 1/2" magnum turkey loads...now that will spin those suckers!

We don't tell the HM guys they can't use 155s at 2700 for rifle targets...just sayin...I thought outlaw 3Gunners did not like more rules. :)

Kinda like back in the early days of circle track racing when they started limiting how big a fuel tank you could have.

50' of 1 1/2" fuel line holds quite a bit of fuel ;)

:lol: there's ALWAYS one in every sport :lol:

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2 3/4" 1.5 ounce #6 magnum turkey loads spin them in one, and that is not a "normal" birdshot load by any stretch. Personally, I am for letting the competitor shoot whatever lead shot they want. If you put them out further, you almost require heavier loads. Put them in close, some guys are going to skip the heavy stuff and shoot the sequence. I have shot our spinner with 3 1/2" magnum turkey loads...now that will spin those suckers!

We don't tell the HM guys they can't use 155s at 2700 for rifle targets...just sayin...I thought outlaw 3Gunners did not like more rules. :)

Agreed and this is what surprised me about Travis putting a rule into place at Ironman this year. I do see both sides of the argument however MGM makes it known that their targets will stand up to any punishment.

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Another thing to consider is that people where center punching stars in an effort to get some freebies. Personally I could care less about what shotgun ammo people use on spinners, if my normal load will do it in 2 then what benefit are they getting from running the 3" shells of self punishment? You can debate the what load is best question till the cows come home, but it is the time spent shooting at the spinner with the pistol and the rifle, or with slugs that really matter. Whith bird shot if it is less than 25 yards away it only takes a few seconds to spin it, people spend MINUTES spinning it with a rifle or pistol, and some never get it over. Jobu demands a sacrifice, cigars, and rum.....

Edited by Stlhead
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  • 4 years later...

I just picked up a new MGM spinner and was thinking of the thread while putting it together. As a Quality Manager, we always need to come up with ways to make things repeatable and measurable at the same time for manufacturing proposes. So, seeing this is the a new spinner, the "8″ and 10″ MGM Hex HEXALLOY 550 target plates" to be exact, I thought it would be a good reference point. When I put it together I noticed it was not adjustable in length, just the ability to align the arms and make them straight with each other. I leveled the targets and added weight to the center of the smaller target until the arms stayed level on there own. Total weight was 3 lbs. to the small target to balance the spinner. Also, the length from the center of each target is 40 1/2". Both arms were not equal distance, but that really is relevant considering the distance they were off.

This may be a simple and effective way to measure 1 spinner to another. 

1. Type make and model of your spinner.

2. Measure the size of plates. (This parameter gives a indication of the mass that must be moved.)

3. Measure the distance the plates are away from the center of each target to the other. (This gives the leverage arm from the center of rotation.)

4. Add weight in lbs./oz. to balance. (Difference in weight.)

If its the MGM Hex spinner than all you need is the 3 lbs. weight to balance.

I would like to know (I'm sure others would too) what you guys come up with.

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