.223 LC Neck tension

[Prebaned]

New one for me,

Lake city once fired brass. Sized w/Dillon carbide die and trimmed with Dillon RT1200. Can't seem to get it right. Outside neck is .2415 avg. inside is .217-.218 on a resized case.

Bullets are Hornady .224 FMJBT 55gr W/C.

Bullets come in at .2225 avg.

Loaded dummy outside necks are .2455 avg.

Tension should be around .004 on average.

What I have read is setback should not occur under 25lbs. of force. When I push the bullet into a metal block on the side of my bench I get it to move with a lot of force from my thumb pushing the head of the cartridge. I don't know how to measure it in pounds but it does move.

Question is, being the tension number seems right, is my setback test at fault and no reason for concern exists? Maybe I'm putting to much ass behind the head?

Anyone have a more repeatable way to check for setback?

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Edited May 9, 2014 by Prebaned

[George Post]

Are you over crimping? I do not crimp and I have no problem with my push test.

George

[dmshozer1]

Load some rds. Measure the over all length. Feed them through your gun by manually working the action. Do it vigorously as if

they were actually being fired. Measure the over all length to measure any set back. I allow .003 set back but rarely see it.

[Prebaned]

I got it now. I adjusted the trim die down 1/8 more and that gave me a little shorter on the case gauge. The head was .001 under the high cut on the Dillon case gauge. The low cut is .005 lower than the high cut. I now have the head .004 under the high cut. Now with that the headspace set properly it seemed to tighten up the necks at the shoulder more. I resized the batch again and wet tumbled the DCL off this time. I think I went a little to much with the DCL in the necks and didn't clean them enough in the walnut media to remove the lube in the necks. The wet tumble seemed to get it all off and no set back issue. Next time no more lube in the necks and I think I won't have any setback issue.

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[ffgats]

Just a follow up question, Did you adjust the sizing die, like screwing the die down further to increase the next tension? I curious my self because Im having some issues as well with my Frontier bullets and most of the 55gainers , not with the 75 gr. . thanks

[Prebaned]

Just a follow up question, Did you adjust the sizing die, like screwing the die down further to increase the next tension? I curious my self because Im having some issues as well with my Frontier bullets and most of the 55gainers , not with the 75 gr. . thanks

I think I had two issues. One was to much lube left in the necks after sizing that was cured by wet tumbling. I have a carbide expander ball on my Dillon sizer so no more lube in the necks as it really isn't needed with the carbide ball for smooth operation.

The other was, although I was within headspace spec I was on the long side. Squeezing shorter by a few more thousands seemed to get tighter neck tension lower on the neck. I'm still within headspace spec on the Dillon case gauge but closer to the shorter side.

So to answer your question, yes, I screwed down the sizing die.

I actually used my trim die which is a sizing die. My carbide dillon sizing die sizes 90% of the case while I have the trim die do the other 10% as I want a good hold of the case while trimming to avoid spinning the case in the die.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Prebaned

[RDA]

Just a follow up question, Did you adjust the sizing die, like screwing the die down further to increase the next tension? I curious my self because Im having some issues as well with my Frontier bullets and most of the 55gainers , not with the 75 gr. . thanks

Screwing the die down further shouldn't really increase neck tension, it simply bumps the shoulder back further. The expander ball determines neck tension, decreasing its diameter would decrease the neck diameter and increase tension theoretically.

[ffgats]

Thanks for all your feedbacks, maybe will try polishing the expander,

or will try the Lee Collet die and apply / use after fully resizing with the Dillon FL sizing die on the same tool head and next station.

[Steve RA]

Don't crimp them, neck tension is what holds the bullet tightly. Polish the expander ball.

[ffgats]

Don't crimp them, neck tension is what holds the bullet tightly. Polish the expander ball.

Thanks Steve, I'm not so familiar with the Lee Collet Die, I thought what it does is only neck Sizing the brass.

[Steve RA]

It's a fancy crimping die, which is what you don't want to do.

[reptoid]

It's a fancy crimping die, which is what you don't want to do.

It's a fancy crimping die, which is what you don't want to do.

The Lee collet die is not "a fancy crimping die". It is a neck sizing die and cannot be used for crimping. You are probably thinking of the Lee Factory crimp die.

Not enough neck tension is caused by 1) sizing die too large in neck area, or 2) neck expander button too large, for the brass and or bullets you are using. Sometimes in pistol cartridges it can be caused by thin brass (some R-P), but this is very rare to non-existent in 223 brass.

Do your bullets really mike .2225"? I would expect those to shoot pretty poorly

Edited May 14, 2014 by reptoid

[SevoTT]

The Lee collet die with a factory mandrel will leave you with about 1-2 thou of neck tension depending on the brass. This is fine for bolt guns, but if you are shooting a semi-auto, you will probably want a little more neck tension. Fortunately, you can order undersized mandrels from Lee for $5.

Are you using a RT1200? If so, that die really squeezes the necks down tight. I usually end up with 5 thou of neck tension using this die depending on the brass.

Check for a bent decapping/expander stem. This can lead to eccentric case necks and funky neck tension.

I agree with reptoid, are your bullets really .2225?

[Marv Z]

All my set back problems went away when I switched to a small base die. Sizes to SAMMI minimum spec. I use a RCBS die after all kinds of issues with the Dillon. Only crimp used is on cannelure on 55gr Hornadys.

[ffgats]

measured my Frontier (55gr)and Hornady 55g5 are on the .222 same with Hornady 75 grs. but the 75 gainers has no setback at all loaded to an oal of 2.250. By the way both Frontier and Hornady 55grs. if seated 2.240 that's when the tension is worst, However when seated 2.200 its not too bad, need to apply enough push to see some setback.

[MickB]

Word direct from Dillon was to remove the expander ball completely for max neck tension....

Mick