.223 Case Prep with Dillon Rapid Trim and lube die on 650?

[zsavage81]

OK so I'm wanting to start loading .223 on my 650. Basically my plan is to run a case prep tool head and a loading tool head so 2 passes through the press and every thing is loaded. Here's my questions:

I want to use a RCBS lube die to lube on the press. So in a perfect world I would lube on #1, size on #2, trim #3, and size again on #4? Then I'd tumble to clean off the lube. And on my loading run I'd use a universal decap die to clean the primer pocket on #1, powder on #2, powder check on #3, seat on #4, and crimp on #5. BUT I've heard the Dillon rapid trim takes up both station beside it? If that is true I could lube on #1, size #2, and trim on #4. If that's the case do you think it needs to even be sized a second time?

What I heard is that the trimmer grabs the case hard enough to keep it from spinning so people were concerned it would deform the case to the point it would need a second sizing after the trim?

I'm also considering the press mounted swager so it would truly be a 2 cycle run through the press to have loaded ammo.

how is everyone else doing it?

[Paul-the new guy]

Tool head 1 has an old .38 special die in the first station that just decaps. Nothing in station 2 or 3 RT1200 in station 4 where the brass is sized and trimmed. I lube with either imeprial sizing wax or One Shot. I used RCBS but I got lube dents. Nothing in station 5. Then tumble again if you want, (I don't) and switch to tool head 2. Station 1 is empty station 2 has powder drop station 3 has Mr BF bullet drop station 4 has seating die and station 5 has crimp die.

[pmclaine]

No need to size after the trim die. It will really squeeze your brass.

I run two sizing dies the first one is set for about 80-90% sizing and I run the expander ball to clean up the necks. The trim die is set to size based on readings from a Hornady headspace gauge.

The brass is good to go after trimming. Just check to make sure the necks are not so tight you shave copper jackets. If so you should chamfer/debur or use a mandrel to get proper neck tension.

[RDA]

I'm also considering the press mounted swager so it would truly be a 2 cycle run through the press to have loaded ammo.

Not sure what research you have done on the 650 mounted swager but the results I have seen posted weren't too good and it also voids your Dillon warranty. The 650 wasn't designed for that operation and the stresses it exerts on the press.

[rjacobs]

On a 650 I would:

universal decap(lee is best IMO after trying every other one on the market)

empty

trim/size

empty

mandrel neck expander(I use the 21st century expander mandrel setup, its really nice).

The Dillon trim dies size the body just fine(thats what they are), but the necks are TIGHT because the reamer they are cut with is a reamer designed for a regular size die with expander ball and since the expander ball is the last thing to touch the brass, it sets neck tension and opens up the tight neck. So you HAVE to put something through the neck to very slightly re-expand it and set neck tension since you dont have that expander ball to pull back through to set neck tension. This doesnt need to be an additional full length size die, the mandrel works well and is sized to give perfect .002 neck tension. I havent even found a need to chamfer case mouths since switching to the mandrel to expand the neck.

[mgrs]

I don't use a lube die on my 650. I use dillon spray lube on a box of cases and then dump the box into the casefeed. I do end up having to wipe out the casefeed once in a while.

Toolhead 1:

1. Universal decap die

2. empty powder die

3. nothing

4. Size/trim die

5. nothing

The dies are lowered to be level and cause some overcam to prevent uneven sizing/trimming. Brass is tumbled to remove lube.

Toolhead 2:

1. .223 size die backed out 2 turns (expanding the case mouth on the down stroke and clearing the flash hole)

2. Powder drop

3. Nothing

4. Seat

5. crimp (not always in use.

I guess it might be smarter (as mentioned by rjacobs above) to neck expander on the processing tool head after trimming, but this setup seems to work fine and I don't have to buy another die...

I find that with the dillon trim die, I do not need to camfer/debur. The dillon trimmer cuts great and does not leave a burr I can feel. Tumbling after processing seems to blunt the squared edges. The neck expander does the same to the inside. I find that the case necks mike at .218 give or take depending on lot after the trim die and then .221 after the neck expander. I get enough neck tension to run fine in gas guns. I also only use boat tail bullets.

I