2011 Grip Safety

[StealthyBlagga]

Food for thought: Perhaps we should go with the NRA safety rules (3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.)

I noticed that the AMU shooters were unloading (completely) their guns prior to dumping them at the last Nationals. That would eliminate a lot of "issues". All firearms would be unloaded; no dependence on a safety device that could fail.

Again, just a thought.

Ranger6

A lot of top shooters do this with their 1911s because they believe the extra time investment is offset by the superior handling of the 1911 platform - that is totally their prerogative. However, I'm not a huge fan of making unloading mandatory for all shooters as it is not a safety necessity for many gun platforms, and forcing folks to do unnecessary manipulations on the clock carries risks of its own (breaking 180, dropping gun, dumping rounds etc.). The rules as currently written - on safe OR empty - seem to work just fine except for the few 1911 aficionados who occasionally fumble the football. If matches follow the USPSA lead on making this a stiff procedural penalty rather than a match DQ, I expect much of the angst around this rule is likely to dissipate.

[T Bacus]

It's all a matter of scale, and what people perceive as safe and the actions they feel comfortable around. My main point in this thread is that it is the act of abandonment that can be safe or unsafe, not the condition of the gun once abandonment has been achieved.

An M&P or Glock laying in a dump barrel is no more safe that a 1911 laying there with the thumb safety off. I will agree that it is less 'unsafe' to throw a Glock or M&P than it is to throw a 1911 with the safeties off, but throwing a loaded handgun into a dump bucket is an unsafe act to begin with. It seems odd to me that we penalize based on the condition of the gun after the unsafe act, rather than the unsafe act itself.

[AFH]

"If matches follow the USPSA lead on making this a stiff procedural penalty rather than a match DQ, I expect much of the angst around this rule is likely to dissipate."

Other matches have been doing this for years. USPSA is certainly not in the "lead" on this change in handling these situations.

Andy

[LoganbillJ]

Why the drastic change from match DQ to heavy procedural? Why not a stage DQ. Give the shooter the max time and they still get to shoot the rest of the match rather than go home.

Then again under 3GN rules any DQ is a match DQ. Just another reason I prefer outlaw.

[T Bacus]

If the shooter places the gun in the receptical in a safe manner why penalize him or her at all?

"All firearms must be abandoned in a safe manner, with the muzzle pointed down, or in the direction designated by the course description. The competitor must remain in control of the weapon until it is inside the designated container. Tossing or throwing a firearm is an unsafe act and will be grounds for a match DQ. Any discharge wile abandoning a firearm will be a match DQ."

Do we really need more than that?

[LoganbillJ]

If we go by that thinking what would be considered "a safe manner"? Does the firearm need to be placed in a way that it does not move after the shooter places it in the provided location or barrel? Who is to say what is too fast or just safe enough? Where do you draw the line?

I admit I abandon my gusn rather quickly as placing them nicely takes a lot of time. Granted if I am chucking guns in barrels as I run past they are completely unloaded.

[T Bacus]

If we go by that thinking what would be considered "a safe manner"? Does the firearm need to be placed in a way that it does not move after the shooter places it in the provided location or barrel? Who is to say what is too fast or just safe enough? Where do you draw the line?

I admit I abandon my gusn rather quickly as placing them nicely takes a lot of time. Granted if I am chucking guns in barrels as I run past they are completely unloaded.

You are correct. The rule can be stated even simpler...

"All firearms must be abandoned in the designated container, with the muzzle pointed down, or in the direction designated by the course description. The competitor must remain in control of the weapon until it is inside the designated container. Tossing or throwing a firearm is an unsafe act and will be grounds for a match DQ. Any discharge wile abandoning a firearm will be a match DQ."

[openclassterror]

All this could be averted if a 2011 manufacturer made a few simple changes.........

XDm safety devices-

XDm grip safety- directly blocks sear.

2011 mod- move grip safety tab so it blocks sear instead of trigger stirrup

XDm striker safety- depressed by lifter, only when trigger is pulled

2011- many series 80+ type 1911s already possess this if it is not disabled or removed

XDm trigger safety- ala glock

2011 mod- wouldn't be too hard to add a pivoting tab in the trigger, like a savage accu-trigger

Make these changes, delete the manual safety from the get-go. NOW, When abandoning, "all available safety devices must be engaged before abandoning the firearm". CHECK!!!!! Dump it and run!

[StealthyBlagga]

All this could be averted if a 2011 manufacturer made a few simple changes.........

XDm safety devices-

XDm grip safety- directly blocks sear.

2011 mod- move grip safety tab so it blocks sear instead of trigger stirrup

XDm striker safety- depressed by lifter, only when trigger is pulled

2011- many series 80+ type 1911s already possess this if it is not disabled or removed

XDm trigger safety- ala glock

2011 mod- wouldn't be too hard to add a pivoting tab in the trigger, like a savage accu-trigger

Make these changes, delete the manual safety from the get-go. NOW, When abandoning, "all available safety devices must be engaged before abandoning the firearm". CHECK!!!!! Dump it and run!

I don't remember if the STI frames are already machined to accept Series-80 parts, but in any event few 1911 shooters use them because of the negative impact on trigger pull. Making the other mods you suggest may not be commercially viable. IMHO the easier approach would be a spring-loaded thumb safety.

Edited April 28, 2014 by StealthyBlagga