I'm done with it. These price increases are ridiculous going to mo

[Planter]

I have a huge advantage over you guys simply because I've only been reloading for a few months. I'm not smart enough to know that paying $50.00 for a box of CCI primers or $45.00 for 500 bullets is expensive or that $23.00 for a pound of TiteGroup isn't a bargain. That still ciphers out to be sumpin like $75.00 to build 500 rounds instead of the $200.00 I would have paid for 500 store bought a short time ago. That's if I could have even found it and there wasn't a one to three box limit. Right now I'm loving it and grabbing powder, primers and bullets every chance I get.

[rerun]

I have a huge advantage over you guys simply because I've only been reloading for a few months. I'm not smart enough to know that paying $50.00 for a box of CCI primers or $45.00 for 500 bullets is expensive or that $23.00 for a pound of TiteGroup isn't a bargain. That still ciphers out to be sumpin like $75.00 to build 500 rounds instead of the $200.00 I would have paid for 500 store bought a short time ago. That's if I could have even found it and there wasn't a one to three box limit. Right now I'm loving it and grabbing powder, primers and bullets every chance I get.

As you should because this is the fun stuff when you start! I do remember those days.

Marc

[Chills1994]

A local place has primers for $50 a brick. Any .22LR they had went POOF! immediately

I was going to complain but I was wearing this shirt:

[joedirt]

I have been shooting blue bullets in open for about 4 months now. they work fine, every bit as accurate as a mg. 1200 125gr rn for 83.00 can't beat that. buy more get a better price.

[Brooke]

IN MY OPINION I believe a lot of the problems we are causing our selves. I'm not saying price gouging and other shit is not happening but have a few things I think might explain some of the problem.

1. Why do you need 500,000 per type of primers for a year?

2. Why do you need 75lbs of each powder?

3. Why do you need 20 cases of bullets at a time?

I watched people purchase tons of shit they didn't really need only to try to resell it to other members on this and many forums at a outrageous price and well DONT ASK ME WHY PEOPLE PAID IT

I understand the concept of the free market but i think we F#$K ourselves more then anything.

Bingo!!! The merchandize belongs to the manufacturer until he sells it to either a wholesaler or retailer. Eventually it gets to the user. The price goes up when demand goes up because people will buy at higher prices (and resulting profits). That's capitalism isn't it ?

So who controls the price ? Ultimately the end user. If he goes out and fills his gas tank when he hears about a gasoline shortage, then he creates or aggravates the shortage and prices spike.

The average American is famous for one thing in the stock market and many professionals take advantage of it. The typical investor, astonishingly, buys hot stocks high and later sells them low. Forget mathematics, apparently students don't even learn basic arithmetic. Unfortunately they learn basic bitching pretty well.

Let's say you are a manufacturer. You know the price is going to crash. You have seen it over and over. Will you invest in long term capacity? No, because you know that prices will crash before it comes on stream. You won't hire for the same reason. The wholesaler and retailer also know the crash is coming so they do not stock high levels of inventory at high prices.

We have met the enemy and he is in the mirror. If you hoard, you will lose because you are stuck with expensive supplies when prices return to reasonable levels. You have wasted your money because you mistakenly fell for crap about government intervention and permanent shortages created by corporations.

If you know a hoarder keep him on your Christmas card list because you will be able to buy at bargain prices soon. He can not eat ammo or supplies and he has unwisely invested his limited funds in things he does not understand. The good thing about about capitalism is how easy it is to steal from the general population.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Brooke

[Mat Price]

I'll point out the obvious here, but if you are looking for ways to spend less money, get out of open.

Shooting open has nothing to do with the price of reloading supplies. I don't mind paying to play in open. The price of projectiles has no bearing on division as I would shoot the same amount regardless.

Steve as far a pd issues with quality control and production

I will go into more detail next time I see you but a quick account

Shipments have gone out with 40 and 9mm in the same box. Extreme variations in projectile oal especially on jhp bullets.

I will tell her you why that happened in person.

But they have replaced at their cost and made right every time a customer has had issues which is why I continued to buy from them.

I'm not here to bash a company John hey are good people and try best to provide a good product.

That product has simply become more than I am willing to spend so I will find comparable alternatives

Edited March 14, 2014 by Mat Price

[gm iprod]

It is not stockpiling, which indicates greed.

It is prudent use of cash reserves to insure against downstream stock shortfalls. Plus by buying in larger quantities I am utilising my limited cash reserves to maximise my purchasing potential and further hedge against future usage going forward.

[ghost21]

In 2004 lead was about 20 cents per pound. It has come down recently to 1 dollar a pound. Lead is a commodity and commodities are typically sound markets in terms of how you would normally think of supply and demand. Although there is some environmental compliance interference even internationally.

Lead would have to be (totally guessing) 50-60 % of the price if bullets? So as the main component goes so does the price. Brass would be the other big component. And I couldn't find a chart of prices, all metals are up over the last few years.

So - I think it's a bit naive to say companies just charge more because people are buying more. It's true in some cases to an extent but I don't think it is what's going on with ammo

How does lead go down from 20cents a pound to 1 dollar a pound!

Or maybe I'm reading that wrong!

Edited March 14, 2014 by ghost21

[Dkrad1935]

Well it went up as high as 1.30 or something like that and then came down.

The phrase was "come down recently" which was meant to describe past year.

Does that clarify?

[ghost21]

^{You know al this talk of stockpiling , shortages ,(should have stocked up earlier) is all BS.}

^{Yes it is supply and demand! But to tell the truth, not all of us and I I'm pretty sure there is a lot of us, don't have the resources or money to make large quantity purchases for bullets, brass or powder.}

^{Its always the same soap opera, every time I hear someone talk about supply and demand, I would almost bet they are probably the ones going to the LGS, wally world ,Dicks, cabala's or where ever. Seeing ammo, and/or components on the shelves and spending almost every dollar they have on them, and in turn contributing to the problem of short supply.}

^{That's my 2 cents take it for what its worth!}

^{If you already have a stockpile, why not lay off for a bit and let everything catch up!}

^{BTW , If my little rant gets the thread locked, Let me say I'm sorry now!}

Edited March 14, 2014 by ghost21

[ghost21]

Well it went up as high as 1.30 or something like that and then came down.

The phrase was "come down recently" which was meant to describe past year.

Does that clarify?

got ya !

[thermobollocks]

For components, the differences I see are generally between 9mm and 45 (raw material difference), and 45/223 (projectile cost is actually cheaper on .223, but brass and powder get annoying), and 223/308 (twice the powder, about 60% more on projectiles), depending on a ton of things. For rifle stuff, you can save by doing your own brass prep and shooting "bulk" type bullets that are consistent enough for your purposes instead of chasing the last possible tenth of a BC. For pistol stuff, I've found that working with bare lead in 9mm was more than $20/1000 of a pain in the butt, so Bayou or other poly-coat bullets are probably the cheapest I'd go (even though I currently use Xtreme).

Oh, and shotshells. Those little guys cost phat stacks of greenbacks.

[rtp]

It is not stockpiling, which indicates greed.

It is prudent use of cash reserves to insure against downstream stock shortfalls. Plus by buying in larger quantities I am utilising my limited cash reserves to maximise my purchasing potential and further hedge against future usage going forward.

Pretty much. The guys walking in and out of stores to 'bypass' limits, to turn around and dump it on Gunbroker, many of which, don't even shoot - they're making a buck at the misfortune of others; may karma pay them a visit.

Since starting reloading, I've gone from it being unimaginable to buy in case quantity projectiles, to being annoyed when I can't get one or more cases, and looking into a group buy on a drum full of bullets.

My largest HazMat orders to date have been ~20k primers, and ~30# of powder.

I've since 'evolved' into working out 3 and 5 year component plans (I'm good to shoot for at least 3 years now on powder + primers, but lagging a bit in projectiles).

Few of us are made of $, so I've gone through each reasonably quality bullet mfgr and/or seller, and calculated prices down to per round (shipping included), and am considering switching from MG JHPs to one of the coated options.

Meanwhile, I'm picking up projectiles here and there when they go on sale (example 10% off or better for Xtreme plated puts .224 FMJBT into ~8c/ea Hornady case pricing but at lower qty, and their plated .355/9mm into the 7-8c/each range)..likewise picked up some SNS coated, and will be picking up some BBI at some point to shoot through and compare...after which, will decide which way to go and likely be ordering in 10k+ batches at a time, maybe more if I can get a few buddies to go in together.

With price increases all around, it only makes sense to consider your options, and to buy in bulk wherever possible. When you consider the unavailability as well as price gouging in effect (go try to buy an 8# jug of WSF or Titegroup on GB, or anywhere else, for that matter), and that the unavailability also extended even to bullets and brass for a while, it really tends to make you think not only about increasing quantities purchased, but also the frequency of your purchases and simply, 'How long can I shoot with what I have?' Add to that the fact that historically, we really haven't seen 'surge or panic prices' drop down fully to where they were before (anyone seen Tula/Wolf $15/k or even $20/k primers recently? ), and it's more of the same.

I'm not running around clearing out LGS of any/all powder they have, although if I see any TAC, H335, Xterminator, 8208-XBR, Win231 or WSF at reasonable prices locally, or if I see something I know a local shooter needs, I'll pick up a few lbs of it either for myself, or to give to them at what I paid for it. I don't have any plans for another online powder/primer order before summer, or maybe not until the end of the year/start of 2015 again, but at that point I may have to figure out the joys of fire safety regulations, as I'd just as soon pick up another 30k primers along with that powder order..

I can't fault anyone doing similarly. For someone struggling to get components to shoot for a year (I shoot a bit less than many of you, maybe 6k 9mm/yr and 2-4k .223/yr), it may seem 'excessive,' but I can guarantee those of us buying for personal usage, even if extending out to 10 years worth of shooting, are a tiny drop in the bucket vs the Gunbroker 'businessmen' (aka gougers).

[joedirt]

I think lead will get even higher when the ammo and bullet companies have to start buying their lead from over seas ,since the last lead foundry was shut down the first of this year.

extruded lead is still plentiful

[gm iprod]

At no time will bullet makers be buying any more from overseas than they already do. The majority of the new lead that is introduced into the US economy each year and all of the new lead that is introduced into our little economy comes from overseas. Australia and Chile are the largest exporters that I can think of right this minute. It is actually cheaper to import Lead from Chile into the US than dig it out of the ground in MO and smelt it up.

Lead is about 99.5% recyclable. Lead out of a foundry is usually 99.999% pure, lead from recycle is 99.95% pure.

Closing the foundry in MO will not cause any great economic difficulties to the US economy, it will greatly impinge on the immediate local economy as X number of jobs are gone, which is the bigger shame.

[polizei1]

What really sucks is that not only am I low on my 9mm supply for this season, I'm building a rifle and can't even find components for that...so I'm going to have a ton of money in a rifle that's essentially a paper weight!!!

[rtp]

I think lead will get even higher when the ammo and bullet companies have to start buying their lead from over seas ,since the last lead foundry was shut down the first of this year.

extruded lead is still plentiful

I do wish people would do some research before propagating this manure. (ghost's post, not Joe's)

Bullets aren't made from first-run lead, but from recycled. Do you really think a single lead plant was supplying all US bullet mfgrs? Nope, not at all.

There should be no impact.

[GmanCdp]

I use to giggle at other new shooters with the $2.05 box of 45acp that I could reload, and shoot 5 or 700 a month and not break the bank. but not so now with primers at .06 to .08 cents and .13 cent bullets makes it a little harder on the pocket book.. I 've been loading since the late 70's and never really seen the need to stock up until the last few years..Just like everything else prices do go up.. A fellow shooter called the other day that i loaned a SBD to, and he said the heck with it trying to find reloading components he is giving me the press back along with all his brass and bullets and primers.. He said it will be better for him to buy 2k to 3k of loaded rounds a year and not worry with anything..

[razorfish]

I was excited to see that my local gun shop had some 1lb cans of VV N320 in stock yesterday until I realized it was going to cost $47 per pound to take it with me.

I let them keep it.

[rtp]

I use to giggle at other new shooters with the $2.05 box of 45acp that I could reload, and shoot 5 or 700 a month and not break the bank. but not so now with primers at .06 to .08 cents and .13 cent bullets makes it a little harder on the pocket book.. I 've been loading since the late 70's and never really seen the need to stock up until the last few years..Just like everything else prices do go up.. A fellow shooter called the other day that i loaned a SBD to, and he said the heck with it trying to find reloading components he is giving me the press back along with all his brass and bullets and primers.. He said it will be better for him to buy 2k to 3k of loaded rounds a year and not worry with anything..

I can understand your friend's actions, although you have to wonder if he'll be back asking for the press again once/if/when loaded ammo dries up again.

Having said that, (most) primers and projectiles are flowing fairly freely right now, with powder still being an ongoing hunt. Even so, I've picked up > 30# or more this year, and picked up some CFE Pistol to try just ordered today..not an 'ideal' price as I couldn't get an 8# jug, but with pistol and rifle primers added to the order, it wasn't too bad.

I almost wish the Gunbroker gougers would find themselves fined or regulated out of existence..almost. Would be interesting to see what happened to supplies if only actual shooters or real retail (incl mail order registered businesses) were making the purchases.

[nYdGeo]

I load 5.3 of auto comp behind a bayou 147. 170 pf with a 5 inch poppled 9mm from FGW with the new cheely comp. Brass and primers look great too. A little case lube in the comp before and after and good to go. Love it and very clean.

You were kind enough to let me shoot a few of those rounds when my wife and I were picking up my STI recently, and I can verify that these loads are suprisingly soft and flat shooting. I'm thinking about developing a similar load for my .38 Super and then comparing them to my current 124gr loads.

[rtp]

I load 5.3 of auto comp behind a bayou 147. 170 pf with a 5 inch poppled 9mm from FGW with the new cheely comp. Brass and primers look great too. A little case lube in the comp before and after and good to go. Love it and very clean.

You were kind enough to let me shoot a few of those rounds when my wife and I were picking up my STI recently, and I can verify that these loads are suprisingly soft and flat shooting. I'm thinking about developing a similar load for my .38 Super and then comparing them to my current 124gr loads.

At least there may be one 'upside' - it seems we're all loading now with 'whatever we can get' and making it work. I know for myself, I've got WSF, 4756, 7625, Silhouette, Autocomp, and now some CFE Pistol on hand, where I'd have been happy to just have WSF. By the time powder availability improves significantly, we're likely to have quite a bit more collective load data out there for a wider range of powders...

[zhuk]

I was excited to see that my local gun shop had some 1lb cans of VV N320 in stock yesterday until I realized it was going to cost $47 per pound to take it with me.

I let them keep it.

$47 for 2.2kg??

Wow. Try $50-55/500g which we pay here

[razorfish]

I was excited to see that my local gun shop had some 1lb cans of VV N320 in stock yesterday until I realized it was going to cost $47 per pound to take it with me.

I let them keep it.

$47 for 2.2kg??

Wow. Try $50-55/500g which we pay here

Your conversion is a bit off. 1 pound = 453.59 grams. So the price for the N320 is about that same.

Wow... they're charging "Australian Prices" for the powder in the US now!

[zhuk]

I was excited to see that my local gun shop had some 1lb cans of VV N320 in stock yesterday until I realized it was going to cost $47 per pound to take it with me.

I let them keep it.

$47 for 2.2kg??

Wow. Try $50-55/500g which we pay here

Your conversion is a bit off. 1 pound = 453.59 grams. So the price for the N320 is about that same.

Wow... they're charging "Australian Prices" for the powder in the US now!

/facepalm

Unfortunately I am mathematically dyslexic cheers for the correction!

Well at least your gun prices aren't commensurate...yet. My M&P 9L cost $900 4 years ago lol