John Dunn Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Whatever happened to shooting for fun? I say we lower the match fees, get rid of the Kewpie (spelling?) dolls, and just shoot. All the point series/prize table threads seem like wasted energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I like that idea, but I'm not sure if I'd feeling the same if I were more "competitive" both by nature and by skill level. I think huge matches could benefit by having two types of entries: full price for people shooting for the money and prizes, and a smaller price for people just shooting for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 "I think huge matches could benefit by having two types of entries: full price for people shooting for the money and prizes, and a smaller price for people just shooting for fun." That idea would help all shooting sports. Sporting Clays should be the next in line to do this. People are paying nearly 200 bucks to enter a shoot, no telling how much on travel and practice, all to win 1500 bucks at a big shoot (if you can beat everybody). Big prizes should mean a larger entry fee. A small prize should also mean small entry fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I agree totally even though it is nice to win a gun at a match. I would prefer lower entry fees and just a trophy versus paying high fees so that everyone can get their shockbuffs off the prize table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Forget the trinkets and cash. I just want to see my name closer to the top of the list when the scores are posted. In a large match I would like to see perhaps a cash prize being a percentage of the net for 1st through 3rd. The rest of us will shoot for fun. (what is 2 cents American worth in Euros today?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 for the first time in several years, our club is not having a prize table at the year end banquet. It will just be a dinner and plaques for 1st through 3rd in each division/class. We are using the money that normally went to the prize table to buy props, steel and targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 "(what is 2 cents American worth in Euros today?)" Not much. Some of the reason I've cut back on league action this year IS the cost. If I 'do' league, I can't afford to practice. If I don't practice, I'm no good at league action. I'm still trying to find the answer to this....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 That's simple, More Money! Yeah, I'll let you know as soon as I figure out how.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 This is so nice to hear. With all the debating I have seen lately over prize tables, cash payouts, and how to dispense it all, it is nice to hear of people that just wanna shoot. I dont think anyone got into this sport for the huge money to be made, and it bothers me when people say that they wont go to a match without a prize table. I also dislike very much when everyone says that the top people should get all the prizes because they "put in the time and money to get good". I hate to break everyones hearts here, but there are people who put in a ton of time and money and still never get to the top. This is for a variety of reasons, but this sport does involve some natural and some developed skill. Leathem, Jarrett, Jerry Barnhart, they have been doing this hard for years and have earned what they have the hard way, but there are also people that have shot for as long and spent tons of money that are still halfway down the scoresheet. This is also why I have always been a supporter of adding a "pro" class to every major match. I also frequently hear people say "well if you were at the top you wouldnt sing the same tune". I do still see from time to time people at the top that dont care much for the prizes, as they do for the feeling of winning. Ask Action Pistolero how he pick off the prize table when he wins (very frequent). He has won damn near everything short of the Bianchi Cup and couldnt care less if he makes a dollar off of it. I understand for some pro's this is more of a job, but for most of the mere mortals I think prize tables have become an abomination of the purity of the game. just my .02, and that dont buy much anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I agree with most of what has been said. In South Africa they have a system where, under correction, 35 or 40% of the entrance fees for a, in their case, Nationals gets returned to the shooter in the form of medals, trophies and awards. We here in Namibia also only give trophies to the winners in divisions and some other stuff and medals to the first three in classification and some other stuff. Yes, we don't have money to award and have zero sponsors, but I doubt that we would have a big prize tables if that were different. Prizes, etc would remain more a of a token, recognition or acknowledgement of performance than a "lottery" sized prize. As it is now, the floating trophies and other award act as a big incentives to work toward "your name on that trophy with shooter x, y and z". And the new guys work extremely hard for the "Best Improvement" Trophy (yes, we are small enough to do stuff like that...). Bottom line, AWARD anything you want to the person who EARNED it, but don't turn the award into a goal. Keep it rather as recognition of the goals achieved. My N$0.02 (divide by ±6 for the US equivalent and by ±8.5 for the Euro equivalent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 We just don't have the sponsors in NZ to make the prize table viable, so we don't often have one, but we still get plenty of entries, (proportionally I mean). I've been lucky enough to win a fair share of trophies over the years, they mean nothing to me and I don't keep them. When all is said and done its the results booklet that I compete for, and I don't dwell on that. I am a fan of perpetual trophies though, because they create culture IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I like that idea, but I'm not sure if I'd feeling the same if I were more "competitive" both by nature and by skill level.I think huge matches could benefit by having two types of entries: full price for people shooting for the money and prizes, and a smaller price for people just shooting for fun. I think this would result in vastly smaller prize tables. People likely to be in the $$ know who they are. If those people who know they are not going to win don't pay the "prize surcharge", where is all the money for the winners going to come? Entry fee money spent on prize tables is a transfer payment from the average shooter to the better than average shooter. One can debate the merits of such a system, however, it would be hard to refute the mathematics of this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think this would result in vastly smaller prize tables. You're right, of course, but I don't necessarily agree it would be a bad thing. It's a risk I'm willing to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I like the idea from Dead Buff of a 'floating' Trophy. The winner of say, 2004 Area 6, gets two trophies; a small one and the large 'floating' trophy with their name engraved alongside the previous winners. Then for 2005 they give the 'floating' trophy back (unless they win it again) and keep the small one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Yup, I agree. Do away with prize tables and just give out plaques or other awards. I have won raffle prizes including a handgun at the larger matches i've shot but it has never been what I would have picked or bought myself and they drive up match fees. We even have a local charity match where people bitch about the prize table! Sorry for the rant, but this is a bit of a sore point for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Man if the match directors would drop the prizes table and, or plaques and go with the .50 cent ribbons I could go to more of the big matches. What are we after, as far as a organization (USPSA) more participation or prizes for the few? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Right on John. Kill the prize table!!! Put the money into the match. There are better ways to reward the shooter than with a bunch of trinkets that can sometimes be a large part of the match budget. Put some big stuff at the top for the folks that expect it, but I don’t need full guns 50 deep if it means a $250 match fee. I have run my bit about the prize table mentality and the mindset it brings to the table here in an earlier thread. I offer as evidence to what I speak the following thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...topic=18968&hl= -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I have been the MD for the past couple Colorado State USPSA Matches and Mile High Showdowns. The first thing I did was kill the prize table. The crap that was thrown my was huge, but people still showed up. We lowered the entry fee and still had lots of money to put into new props and nice plaques. I hope prize tables never come back to Colorado and I feel that they are worthless. Sure I get some good stuff off them, but if I really want it that bad I can just buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 If we all practice more we could be come part of the "FEW" Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 If we all practice more we could be come part of the "FEW" Ivan Ivan if we "all" practiced and we "all" got better then we still have a "FEW" winners. I also feel that it would do away with a lot of the sandbagging, not all, but a lot. If someone can sandbag and have a greater chance at winning a pistol rather then a ribbon that is a huge temptation that a lot of people can't pass up, just look at some of the division and class winning scores shot at the big matches. Just my .02 cents worth. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 You are right! But we aren't all going to get better Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 But, I like winning stuff at matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Don't make me post my "I like prize tables" rant again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Well heck, heres the link to my previous rail against prize tables: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ndpost&p=158955 -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 The only prize table I really like is the charity raffle table at the Summer Blast. I've made a donation twice in the last two years ---- and won prizes twice. Match Director Larry Houck was even nice enough to deliver this years to the Area 8 match..... Do away with 'em. Have a simple, clean and fiscally responsible cash payback and be done with it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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