cheers623 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Ok, I've been loading Mostly Rainier and Extreme plated bullets in all of my various calibers for about the last 1.5 years. I've been loading 124gr. hollowpoints in 9mm for my wife and she's pretty happy. However, I recently found an old batch of 147gr round nose Bearcreeks that she used to shoot. She tried them and wants to experiment with going back to 147gr bullet weights. Anyway, all the various bullets we've been loading measured .355" in 9mm. However, the Xtreme plated 147gr bullets only come in either .356" or .357". All of the other 9mm bullets they make come in .355". Which size should I choose and why are the 147gr bullets wider diameter? I'm at a loss and don't understand. Both Rainier and Xtreme 115gr, and 124gr bullets are .355". Wisdom, knowledge.....speculation....help Thanks as always, Cheers623 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I think you ought to send an email to X-treme.... They will answer pretty quick... Always ask the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I might need a new set of calipers ... As I think when I checked the box of 147s I have they measured at .355 .... I'll check again tonight. I can tell you this, the .356 147s I zero tested this morning shot a 2 1/2 " group at 25 yds +/- 1/2" in elevation in my Shadow so whatever the reason I'm not too worried about it although from an academic stand point it would be interesting to here the explaination ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Shoot um. I've shot bullets all the way up to .358 through my STI Trojan in fact a friend runs 158gn .358 plated Berry's through his Para. Very light recoil at 130pf and they are very accurate. Shot 160gn lead .356 with excellent results. Lot's of bearing surface on the bullet again very accurate light recoil. Both pistols run light recoil and mainsprings and have very little mussel flip. That extra .001 to .002 helps the bullet in the rifling and has a better gas seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 that part I understand ... the question is why for the 147s and not their 124s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 My experience was 147s were prone to tumbling specially the 160gr. (Not extreme). With the 0.357, i find that its more stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD1 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The site says .356 for 147s But when you get the package it's says .355 and measure .355. VERY accurate pills and consistent from batch to batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter22 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The .357 "9mm" 147 grain bullets are great for, and I understand were originally made for, those wanting the round nose profile bullet for taper crimping in .38/.357 revolver ammo. I use the .357 "9mm" 147 grain in .38 Short Colt brass (M627). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronicTwitch Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 +1 on 147s tumbling, I shot a few hundred lead flat point that probably weren't perfect diameter (back when the shortage was really bad) and got a handful that key holed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hmmm ... Never had a single 147 tumble .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc90 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 i've been experimenting with 147 LSWC both standard and coated (sized at .356") out of both a CZ SP-01 Shadow and a Baby Eagle ..I havn't had any tumble from either pistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Why, because 0.356-0.357" often works better and prevents bullet tumble/keyholing. Plated seem to tumble more than either jacketed or cast and often, at least in the past, plated bullets were often undersized. Then, you have the fact that 9x19 barrels have groove diameters that can range from 0.354-0.362", so it is also very good to know what you barrel's groove diameter is and match the bullet to it (or find if it prefers 0.355, 0.356, or 0.357" bullets better). I prefer 0.356-0.357" bullets in all my 9mms. I have never seen increased pressure from shooting such, but I still always start with the lowest starting load I can find and work up with any new bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I've been shooting a lot of the XTreme 147 HPCB over American Select, and my Shadow Line loves them. They're the only bullet I've tried thus far to equal my 124gr MG JHP's in accuracy, which I was under the impression shouldn't happen with plated. It's a sweet bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Shot thousands of lead 147's through several 9mm pistols. Only had one batch that weighed right made 130 power factor but would tumble in my Trojan, my Glock34 my friends Les Baer and his 34 with a KKM barrel. Once my stock was gone went with a 135gn or 160jn bullet, these were lead. Had good results with Frontier 147gn plated, Berry and Frontier 115's and Precision Delta 124's and 147gn bullets. Do a search on 147gn lead bullets and you'll find several people had problems with tumbling and the bullets came from several makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 glad it ain't me .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Out of what kinds of guns do you experience problems? My single data point to add is that both my 4" and 5" M&P 9mms eat the XTreme .356 diameter bullets fine. Got more in the mail, actually. I'm also trying the .357 diameter in my Short Colt once I feel like loading more of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yep, 30,000 and counting .... 124 RN, 135 RN, 147 RN and 124 HP ... Don't recall a single episode of tumbling .... I think a lot of times people blame the bullet when it's another issue like over crimping, can't really prove it but I've seen many bullets with pretty severe crimps on them .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD1 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yep, 30,000 and counting .... 124 RN, 135 RN, 147 RN and 124 HP ... Don't recall a single episode of tumbling .... I think a lot of times people blame the bullet when it's another issue like over crimping, can't really prove it but I've seen many bullets with pretty severe crimps on them .... +1 147 is long and should never tumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I recently posted this on another forum. This relates to 115 gr bullets, but still seems relevant. Bottom line is that you may need to test each diameter to see if your guns have a preference to a particular bullet diameter. ---------------------------- I bought a few thousand XTreme 115 gr. 9mm plated bullets a few months back, as they had them on sale and not all weights / styles were available at most retailers. I typically load 147s to use with suppressors, and I like 124s for non-suppressed purposes. In fact, I don't think I've loaded 115s for several years now. The initial results were pretty unimpressive, accuracy-wise. I've been loading plated bullets since the late 90s without any issues. I've primarily used Berry's along with some Rainier. I have loaded XTreme bullets before with decent results, but those were 147 grain bullets. I realize you can easily over-crimp plated bullets, and it can cause issues. So I did an experiment. I've tried measuring at the case mouth to get an idea of how much crimp is applied, but between case thickness variations, and difficulty getting the very outside edge of the case, this can sometimes give unreliable results. So this time around, I crimped and pulled the bullets. That way, I could measure the actual crimp on the bullet its self. One set of bullets was crimped at .352" and the other at .354". I also loaded some Rainier 147 gr. bullets the same way, to see if there was any effect there. See below. Unfortunately, I seemed to get poor results with either crimp set. The useful information I got was that I was not really getting any velocity increase by going to a heavier crimp, so there is no reason to crimp in that manner. I was questioning my loading practices, but I tried some jacketed bullets that I'd loaded previously and they produced a group half the size of the XTreme bullet loads. So were the bullets no good? I've shot their other bullets with good results. So I bought some Berry's 115 gr. bullets to test them against. One thing I noticed when measuring the two was that the Berry's bullet is .356" diameter, and the XTreme bullet is .355". Looking at their online listings, I see the XTreme 9mm bullets up through 135 gr. are .355", but the 147s are .356". So I load up a bunch of each, using Win 231, Win small pistol primers, and mixed range brass. I ended up bringing three guns and four barrels to the range today. I brought a Glock 17 with a factory barrel and a Lone Wolf barrel, a Glock 23 with a Lone Wolf 40-to-9mm conversion barrel, and an HK P9S. Of those, two barrels have cut rifling, and two have polygonal rifling. I shot 10-round groups from each, offhand at 10 yards. All shots went through the chronograph. Both loads through all barrels averaged between 1225 and 1250 fps. And without fail, the Berry's loads produced much tighter groups through the Glock barrels. In all instances, the [span style=font-weight: bold][span style=color: red]XTreme bullets are on the left, and Berry's are on the right.[/span][/span] See below. Glock 17 with factory barrel: Glock 17 with Lone Wolf barrel: Glock 23 with Lone Wolf conversion barrel: One would start to think the bullets may be suspect. As it turns out, both the Glock factory barrel and the Lone Wolf barrels seem to prefer a .356" bullet. But find a gun that likes .355" bullets, and it's a different story. By far the best group of the day was from the XTreme bullets through the HK P9S. P9S So, if you end up with a 9mm that won't group, try going up or down by .001". It may make all the difference in the world. I'm going to have to try this out with a few other guns, and see which gun prefers what size of bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Unfortunately, I seemed to get poor results with either crimp set. The useful information I got was that I was not really getting any velocity increase by going to a heavier crimp, so there is no reason to crimp in that manner. If you pull a bullet and see a crimp ring you over crimped. It is that simple when it comes to service pistol. The results on accuracy with a plated bullet will be far more severe then jacketed. Just remove the flare. Nothing else. The sizing die creates the tension by sizing the case smaller then the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 If you pull a bullet and see a crimp ring you over crimped. It is that simple when it comes to service pistol. The results on accuracy with a plated bullet will be far more severe then jacketed. Just remove the flare. Nothing else. The sizing die creates the tension by sizing the case smaller then the bullet. Yes. Something like the 2nd bullet on the left is what I ended up using for the subsequent testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxerjunky Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I have a question in which 147 to get from xtreme as well the .356 or the .357 for a M&P, and CZ shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I've shot both 147s from Xtreme in my Shadow and the .357 are slightly more accurate than the .356 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Any problems with overpressure on the .357 diameter ones, especially if you're using fast powders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I use WST without issue as far as I know ,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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