Dad Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 We really need to adress the youth shooters here. If any of the youth optin for the pro class they will not be allowed to shoot at a collegiate level,even high school sports would consider the shooter as being a proffesional. Srip: I wasnot thinking about new shooters when I was writting about hit,miss scoring, because of the way the rest of the treadappears to be heading. If we are going to make this an entirly competative sport I would stress hit/miss scoring. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Although I wasn't asked I'll toss out my 2 cents worth. I would prefer amateur prize table based on order of finish versus random. Regardless of how it's done I'm still coming an will shoot to the best of my ability. I'm looking forward to meeting and watching you guys/gals shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strip Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I guess, I would probably go with what the shooters want on this. I like the idea of a Pro Class because I think it adds a lot of opportunity to the sport. again as an option. I see the plus side to either way on the prize table, but it's really not up to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slee Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 So, will there be Pro categories ie. Pro Lady, Junior, Youth, etc. as well as Am Lady, etc, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgreen Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I want to hear from someone other than Mark. He has been taking the brunt of our criticism but is the match director and only sets up the stages. Tim, NSSF, anybody?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiselder Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Well Dennis .... it seems to be a good year for crickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) I see a lot has gone by on this thread since the last time I posted on it. Personally, as one of those who has shot this kind of match for years (1st ever regional east of the Mississippi, 2010, Caswell Ranch, NC) and every world championship since 2011 in NM, I have to say the old format was OK for me. I have shot at the worlds when all was a prize lottery (up thru 2013 I think), but I realize that progress comes along eventually and I was waiting to find out what direction NSSF and its sponsors would take. I liked the 2014 idea of order of merit even though I routinely finish somewhere around 20-29th position every year. I have no problem with a Pro division however. Having seen what BJ did in 2011 verses 2014 I can say that while we have all gotten faster he (and I imagine the real pros) have gotten even better. All inspite of the fact that many of those who finished in that group in 2014 from 2nd to 11th in the 180-190 second time range beat BJ in a few stages. However none of the top 4 from 2011 except BJ shot the match so I did not learn much about relative performance. I brought a teammate with me in 2014 who had never shot an NSSF or Ruger match although he is a very good shooter and we shoot steel several times a month. He finished in that group, and beat BJ in 2 stages, and won 2 regionals overall in 2014. Should he be made to shoot the Pro division? No and I am sure he would not sign up for it anyway. Pro or Am should be by choice not some arbitrary ranking, but overall scoring should be regardless of division or category. Break it down below that the same as always. I also suggest you throw out any Super Squad concept (I shot on Squad 1 in 2013 and having Mike and the cameras around the entire 2 days was at most annoying but didn't effect my shooting as much as the rain on Day 2). Make it so that no squad can have more that 25% pros (depending on how many show up it might be more or less). I think spreading them out can be a learning experience if treated properly. So basically my feeling is with the camp that wants the AM prize table to stay as order of merit. You need to have things different at the Worlds. Otherwise it comes across as just a super regional. I also suggest that only adults can sign up for the Pro division and it should be made clear in the registration documents any consequences for a younger shooter (18+) shooting in the Pro division. Edited March 26, 2015 by photoracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Stearns Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 l agree with almost everything there photoracer. There was one junior at the 2014 match that could easily compete in the pro's. So if a junior wants to jump into the deep end of the pool I have no problem as long as he or she fully understands. I too was at the 2011 world match in New Mexico. There were enough complaints about the random prize table that out was announced fairly early the following year that the 2012 match in Pennsylvania was going to be order of finish. I don't remember if that rule was put into the rule book at that time or a short time later. I have not heard anyone complain that order of finish wasn't fair so I don't know why the change. We do random draw all year at state level matches and I am good with that. The up and coming young shooters work all year and shoot those state matches to prepare for the world match and should be rewarded for their efforts instead of risking a possible last to the prize table situation. I too agree with no super squad. I would even do my best to spread the big name shooters out in the squads. Let these young shooters rub elbows with BJ Norris or John Alchin. I also am dead set against allowing anyone to shoot the match early other than range staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 It was a special case last year for BJ although I agree it should not be done. And I realize it was also an advantage because he got to shoot stages at a faster rate although it did not prevent him from getting beat in some stages. A bonus for us was showing up early so we could see how he shot the stages. I agree it should not be allowed, but he had not shot it in 3 years, they likely made a deal for the seminars and the date they changed the match to conflicted with the major Texas 3-gun event. I was originally squaded with BJ before the date conflict came up. Of course he wanted to shoot the match and possibly the seminars were a way to convince them to allow him to shoot on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Stearns Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I agree he still would have likely won the match. Shouldn't be allowed though no matter what he traded for the privilege. I heard numerous negative comments about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgreen Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 WISELDER, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgreen Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I guess that's all it took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Stearns Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) So far the shooters I have talked with fall into 3 categories. Group 1 doesn't like the change, especially the random prize table for amateur division, but will shoot the world match anyway because they love to shoot rimfire challenge. Group 2 doesn't like the change and will not shoot the world match if these changes are implemented. Group 3 don't seem to care which format is used. I have found no shooters in any of the following: Group 4, those that want the change but will shoot the match either way. Group 5 that want the change and won't shoot unless we go with the new format. I would love to hear from anyone that might fall in either of the last two groups. PM me please of you don't want to address this on the public side. I'd really like to hear your thoughts. Edited March 28, 2015 by Dwight Stearns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) So far the shooters I have talked with fall into 3 categories. Group 1 doesn't like the change, especially the random prize table for amateur division, but will shoot the world match anyway because they love to shoot rimfire challenge. Group 2 doesn't like the change and will not shoot the world match if these changes are implemented. Group 3 don't seem to care which format is used. I have found no shooters in any of the following: Group 4, those that want the change but will shoot the match either way. Group 5 that want the change and won't shoot unless we go with the new format. I would love to hear from anyone that might fall in either of the last two groups. PM me please of you don't want to address this on the public side. I'd really like to hear your thoughts. Mike and I are in the category that we will shoot the match regardless and let the prizes fall where they may. Speaking for him also, who had never shot one of the world championships before, I believe we are either Group 1 or Group 3, most likely in 3. I just like the competition. I would much rather finish in the top 20 (almost done that) at the worlds than on the podium at a regional (done that). We both ended up with rifle barrels from the prize table, which I guess would put us at the higher end in that category. Edited April 9, 2015 by photoracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don22 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I'm new to Rimfire Challenge but have been shooting pistols competitively for 35 years. This is the only competition that I have been involved with that doesn't have a class system. It seems to me that a class system would solve most problems. I don't see why NSSF could not send out one or two classifiers every month. Then we could have a prize table that rewards each shooter according to there ability. Such as Senior, junior, new, old, handicapped etc. it has worked well for other organizations in the past. I understand why the sponsors want a random draw prize table but, I think it is unfair to the shooters that have put time in practicing, working on there guns, studying the sport and even staying fit to do better. I will be at the World Shoot regardless. I just love this style of shooting. Just my 2 cents, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don22 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 One more thing. I don't look at this as pass through sport. Due to physical limitations I can no longer shoot USPSA, so that leaves me with Rimfire Challenge and Steel Challenge and I'm sure I'm not alone. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Stearns Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I agree with you Don. There is no reason for this to be a pass through sport. It is a great test of shooting skills. It shouldn't take a back seat to any other shooting sport. At the age of 59 my feet don't move like they used to. But I can still be competitive in the stand and shoot sports like steel shooting. These new young shooters will keep shooting matches such as rimfire challenge as long as we don't drive them away. I believe that a random prize table at the world championship will leave them little incentive to stay. Thus forcing it to be a pass through sport. Just because it's a pro/am format won't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgreen Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I'm wondering if there has been a decision made yet on what kind of match this will be. There doesn't seem to be any info anywhere. I'm sure some people would like to start making plans if they are going or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Decision has been made. They are working on the press release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgreen Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Thank you, can you give us any insight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 and a new thread for the 2015 match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 When the press release is complete, we will use it to start a new thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 When the press release is complete, we will use it to start a new thread. I'm just messin' with you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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