CFE Pistol in .40 major

[mugenr]

Here is the current load data i'm using out of a Glock 35 with KKM Precision barrel. I shot it back to back with titegroup at the same powerfactor and the CFE pistol seemed a tad lighter recoiling. not much difference. I'm really likin' this powder, except for the dirtiness. After about 200 rounds my green fiber rod goes black.

CFE Pistol at 5.5 grains

OAL at 1.135"

Xtreme 180 gr Plated HP

1) 943 FPS

2) 951 FPS

3) 962 FPS

4) 928 FPS

5) 953 FPS

6) 953 FPS

7) 944 FPS

8) 948 FPS

9) 942 FPS

10) 948 FPS

AVG - 947.2 FPS

PF - 170.5 PF

[GMB]

I have to say I like what I have seen so far with CFE pistol. I ran twenty rds over the chrono this weekend and was very pleased.

180gr Bearcreek

1.140 OAL

5.45 gr of CFE

945fps average

170pf

Very soft shooting compared to titegroup IMO. Let a couple of friends burn some and they were impressed with how soft the recoil was as well. I haven't tested for temp sensitivity. Does anyone else have and info about that.

[CHA-LEE]

Has anyone tested CFE against N320 or WST from a felt recoil perspective?

[GMB]

IN my case just titegroup.

[mugenr]

I tested my loads in 40-45 degree weather and at 70-75 degrees when we had nice weather a couple weeks back.

I did not notice a difference. now that may not be the best test, but it's something.

other than being a bit dirty, I'm very impressed with this powder. It's very consistent and the recoil impulse is smooth.

Edited May 10, 2014 by mugenr

[amish_rabbi]

hmmm, these results are encouraging. I told my local powder supplier to order me 1lb to play with. I'm surprised to hear it is that soft recoiling for a burn rate so close to autocomp

[ttolliver]

I finally got around to getting some CFE Pistol loads through the chrono. I had some of my current N320 competition rounds along for recoil comparison so I ran a set of those through the chrono again.

The test was 20 rounds of CFE Pistol at 5.0, 5.2, 5.4, 5.6, and 5.8. I didn't bother to shoot the last 3. My normal approach is to fire 10 of each group through the chrono and do a quick accuracy test with the other 10 to see if they're worth pursuing. So my accuracy observations here are initial impressions.

With the handful of rounds I fired at 5.0 there appeared to be no difference between that and N320 for recoil or accuracy at 25'.

I'm tempted to say the 5.2 grouped a hair tighter, but two 5-round groups aren't much of a test. There was a bit more of a recoil difference between 5.0 and 5.2 than I expected. Recoil at 5.2 was still much less than other powders grouped around CFE Pistol on the burn rate charts, but I suspect if we ran CFE Pistol at minimum published loads the recoil would be right there with the others.

M&P Pro Core 40 4.25" (new barrel type)

200gr SNS Coated

1.160 COAL

50 degrees

CFE Pistol - 5.0 grains

863

836

878

883

843

881

861

872

849

855

Average 883

SD 15.5

PF of lowest 167

PF of highest 177

PF of average 172

CFE Pistol - 5.2 grains

893

899

869

898

879

885

883

881

901

914

Average 890

SD 12.5

PF of lowest 174

PF of highest 183

PF of average 178

VV N320 - 4.1 grains

859

841

859

862

858

851

854

869

847

836

Average 854

SD 9.6

PF of lowest 167

PF of highest 174

PF of average 171

Edited May 18, 2014 by ttolliver

[ttolliver]

I went back with some CFE Pistol loaded to 4.6, 4.7, 4.8, and 4.9 at 1.150" to see if increasing pressure a bit would do anything to the load. 4.8 looks like the winner as it posted numbers and performance nearly identical to my N320 load. I think I'll load up a few hundred for some extended practice/evaluation.

M&P Pro Core 40 4.25" (new barrel type)

200gr SNS Coated

1.150 COAL

63 degrees

CFE Pistol - 4.8 grains

860

860

848

842

841

865

857

872

843

862

Average 855

SD 10.3

PF of lowest 168

PF of highest 174

PF of average 171

[drewbeck]

Did that load feel close to your N320 load recoil wise? I'm going to do the same with a couple hundred with a 165gr bullet and see how those feel. Also want to know how dirty they are after a day of shooting. Seem like the published data is actually close to reality on this one.

[ttolliver]

Yup, it sure did.

[e-mishka]

So is 5.4gn good starting point for 180gn SNS bullet?

[Cherryriver]

Just for some comparison, here's our standard .40 load with SnS coated 200 RNs- in a six-inch Nowlin barrel in a Limited gun, 4.0gr of N320 goes about 860. The old blue-lube 200s needed a tenth less for the same speed.
These are all loaded to 1.200" OAL as per SnS' suggestion.
The 5" single-stack barrel needs about another tenth to be really safe. Depends on the phase of the moon, too.

We have a pound of CFE on the way so I should have something on that soon.

[3djedi]

I've had good results with 5.6g of cfe with a 180g MG jhp loaded to 1.145 oal. Works great in my glock 35 and Sti.

[bigarm]

I will be interested in your loads for cfe as I have 10 pounds of it.

[robman1000]

Anybody used the new 180 gr Sns with cfe? I will be loading long for a Sti!

[Russellhjoy]

Made some loads with CFE pistol for 40 major

200gr sns moly

200gr xtreme HPCB

180 mtg JHP

175 bayou swc

165 BBI

Worked fine, I used the data people have already posted and made major with each no problem.

Accuracy was excellent

slightly dirty for those who care

I would never use this powder over wst, nitro 100, n310 or even titegroup.

They all felt harsh compared to wst, but it does work if it's all you got.

I'm not sure what we all were expecting with a slow burning powder, lol, it feels pretty much exactly like autocomp and I would use it as such.

[3djedi]

Is anybody getting weird residue from cfe? What is this?

[Cherryriver]

A trivial techie point, but the SnS coated bullets aren't moly. The coating is a polymer.

My guns did not like moly bullets, in terms of cleanliness and reliable operation. The SnS coated have posed no such problems in many thousand of rounds.

[johnbu]

Is anybody getting weird residue from cfe? What is this?

20140717_023250-1.jpg20140717_023335-1.jpg

I'd like to see that under a microscope. The tin foil hatter in me wonders if the new powder has encoded taggants in it. The progressives in government has been trying for 20+ years, now with current EO happy potus O .... ?

[drewbeck]

I had that in my action as well. I thought it was tiny little flecks of spray paint from a couple dummy rounds I tried to spray paint to mark they were the dummies a couple months ago. Painting them doesn't work by the way! but last night I was cleaning my STI and thought how the heck is there still paint flecks in the action from months ago and a lot of cleanings?

This now makes sense as I shot CFE earlier this week.

My experience with CFE is that it is slow and has a solid snap/thump at in 40 Major. I used 165gr to help reduce this, and BBI's were even more help with them being a little faster than plated. Next to WST recoil was STOUT at Major.

If you have other powders for matches, I would load these light to get a similar recoil impulse as your preferred powder and just shoot it in practice if you have the option. I think it is very comparable to AC and should be treated as such. In a pinch it will work for almost any pistol caliber but it is a slower powder. My 40 minor loads feel great and are fun to shoot. I bet this will also work very well in magnum calibers.

I was at 5.9 gr for 180 xtremes and 6.5gr for 165 xtremes in .40 at 1.19 though you should start low and work up obviously

[bigarm]

Made some loads with CFE pistol for 40 major

200gr sns moly

200gr xtreme HPCB

180 mtg JHP

175 bayou swc

165 BBI

Worked fine, I used the data people have already posted and made major with each no problem.

Accuracy was excellent

slightly dirty for those who care

I would never use this powder over wst, nitro 100, n310 or even titegroup.

They all felt harsh compared to wst, but it does work if it's all you got.

I'm not sure what we all were expecting with a slow burning powder, lol, it feels pretty much exactly like autocomp and I would use it as such.

Mind if I ask what load you used for the 200 grain sns? I will be using 200 grain BBI to start with and would like a good starting spot. Just getting back to reloading after a long layoff and would rather not make a mistake.

[Rob01]

I get little goldish flakes like that when shooting titegroup as well. Noticed it when taking apart to clean but never looked down the bore to see if any down there. Never hurt anything or caused any problems in accuracy or reliability. But there have been more black helicopters flying around my house lately

[Russellhjoy]

5.0-5.2 with 200 coated bullet loaded 1.205 should get you major. Previous posts have more data info for this load, their data is for a short chamber. Loading short will produce more pressure/velocity.

[cswpsi]

I had the same residue with CFE Pistol (although I was loading 9mm). Looks like un-burnt powder to me. Wondering if it may be due to the cleaning agent. However, as others have noted, slower burning more like AC, and may burn better in magnum loads.

[bigarm]

5.0-5.2 with 200 coated bullet loaded 1.205 should get you major. Previous posts have more data info for this load, their data is for a short chamber. Loading short will produce more pressure/velocity.

Thanks! I have been watching the posts, but they have all been for shorter chambers and I wanted to load a little longer. I was thinking about loading at about 1.18 as the previous owner of the gun loaded at 1.182 with a 180 grain bullet with a different powder. So if I start around 4.8 I should be fairly safe and can work up from there? Really appreciate your information.